What Op rod spring guide should I choose?

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urlong

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Hi, a m14 noob here,

What should I choose between 'M14 Op rod spring guide Gen II' from S&J hardware and
'M14/M1A Black Arrow Op Rod Spring Guide' from M14.ca?

They both have competitive price but I don't know difference between 4140 steel and 1144 steel.

Plus Black Arrow claims both norinco and USGI springs will fit but I don't know about S&J's can take USGI springs too.

If I only need to choose op rod spring guide then I would pick Black Arrow but S&J has very good deal with cheek riser, $74.99 for both cheek riser and op rod spring guide.

I don't know which steel has more quality but it's kinda hard to pass on package deal.
I would like to buy deal package if there is no problem with S&J guide accepting USGI springs, just in case if I'm able to get USGI spring.

Anybody knows about steel quality? Any input if I should buy package deal for budget wise?


Links below:

http://sjhardware.com/store/modules.php?name=catalog&file=product_info&products_id=591

http://www.m14.ca/M14_M1A_BLACK_ARRROW_ORSG.html
 
Don't look at me to know the difference in steel composition. They all work well. If you need a US spring, I have them. Most of the canadian made spring guides will work with the existing Zhinese Factory spring.

Cheers,
Barney
 
These days when guys ask me this question my answer is simple. Buy canadian ;) nitride coated tool steel is what I prefer. I avoid stainless versions at all cost.
Solid or fluted, means nothing to me performance wise.
As for springs, the GI, M1A, wolfe, tubb, ect springs, will all function reliably with most canadian made guide rods I've handled, installed.

The job of the guide rod is to force the spring to compress evenly and straight so as long as the guide rod you buy performs this way, it's all good to go. I personally put more weight in changing out the guide rod to NM version and don't really see the "need" to change the chinese spring.... Performance wise.... I see no difference. I used to think the spring was a necessity to swap out.... These days, if it works... Don't fix it ;)
 
ipscgraz said:
"I avoid stainless versions at all cost."

Ok...can you give us some thoughts on why?
Click to expand...

Stainless rods were all that was availlable from canadian sources for several years and while they are an improvement and do 'work', stainless as a material choice has proven to be inferior in high use rifles. Surface galling from repeateded spring compression ends up causing spring drag..
After several years of muckin about with different options... I've found that tool steel versions have no such issues. Many folks would agree, especially those with an understanding of the differences between stainless and hardened tool steel in a high friction application.
 
From what I understand the round after market ORSG's for Norinco springs are smaller in diameter than the round ORSG for USGi springs. Is this correct? If so, would using the smaller diameter round ORSG's with the USGI springs cause a bit more kinking in the spring when compressed sort of defeating the purpose of putting in the round OPSG? Maybe it is simpler if I ask if I have a USGI sring do I need a Sadlak ORSG? I mention SADLAK as that seems to be the only ORSG available in the larger USGI diameter.
 
The chinese springs are a bit smaller, true.
A Sadlak guide rod must be ran with a usgi spring or aftermarket equiv like springfield(asian made) , tubb, wolfe ect
In a perfect world, match the guide rod diameter with the appropriate spring. BUT is it critical to have a US made/diameter guide rod? My downrange findings have told me it's not in most cases. However, I fail to understand why Canadian guide rod makers have not made a rod actually designed for the quality springs availlable from the U.S.
 
45ACPKING said:
Stainless rods were all that was availlable from canadian sources for several years and while they are an improvement and do 'work', stainless as a material choice has proven to be inferior in high use rifles. Surface galling from repeateded spring compression ends up causing spring drag..
After several years of muckin about with different options... I've found that tool steel versions have no such issues. Many folks would agree, especially those with an understanding of the differences between stainless and hardened tool steel in a high friction application.
Click to expand...

I know that stainless is susceptible to galling (not as much as aluminum) but I thought a little bit of oil would have taken that issue away.

And yes, I have three stainless guide rods from Marstar because they were what was available at the time.
 
urlong said:
well op rod springs are wobbly and spring guide ain't smooth. And I read here and there that good spring guide will enhance accuracy of the rifle without spending big bucks. :)
Click to expand...

The op rod spring guide and spring will in all honesty not magically improve your rifle in any way shape or form.
If you really want to "improve the accuracy of your rifle" take it out with some good quality .308 Win or handloads before you start swapping out perfectly fine parts for expensive ones that won't change a thing.

I'm not trying to be a ####, I learned this from experience with my own rifle.

That's the best way to not spend big bucks with a Norinco M14.

It can be a money pit and in the end it will shoot no better than a stock Norc M14 with upgraded rear sights.

What are you shooting for average groups at 100 meters with the rifle right now as it is? What ammunition are you using?
 
I've seen spring guides improve 'consistant" accuracy in a great many rifles. To each his own , but to make a statement suggesting that a spring guide will not improve your rifle in any shape or form is just erroneous and thousands of match shooters would disagree with you.... Based on their experience.
I'll add, that while an NM spring guide rod is not a "necessary" upgrade for those wanting a reliably functional, "reasonably" accurate rifle... An NM spring guide rod WILL help you achieve "repeatable, improved accuracy and is an "improved" starting point for those wishing to use load developmnet to really dial in the groups.
 
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45ACPKING said:
I've seen spring guides improve 'consistant" accuracy in a great many rifles. To each his own , but to make a statement suggesting that a spring guide will not improve your rifle in any shape or form is just erroneous and thousands of match shooters would disagree with you.... Based on their experience.
I'll add, that while an NM spring guide rod is not a "necessary" upgrade for those wanting a reliably functional, "reasonably" accurate rifle... An NM spring guide rod WILL help you achieve "repeatable, improved accuracy and is an "improved" starting point for those wishing to use load developmnet to really dial in the groups.
Click to expand...

How does it improve accuracy/consistancy exactly?

I was told that by the time the gas system has even begun actuating, the projectile has long since left the barrel. So a return spring and the rod that guides it being more smooth (which just really returns the bolt to the forward position after the rifle has fired a projectile) will make the rifle shoot better and more consistant?

Logically it just never made a lick of sense to me.

Educate me Sir.
 
I got the S&J hardware spring guid rod. I find their products are top quality and great customer service from Simon over there. They back their products and care about the people who buy them.
 
By consistently seating the bolt

Travis Bickle said:
How does it improve accuracy/consistancy exactly?

I was told that by the time the gas system has even begun actuating, the projectile has long since left the barrel. So a return spring and the rod that guides it being more smooth (which just really returns the bolt to the forward position after the rifle has fired a projectile) will make the rifle shoot better and more consistant?

Logically it just never made a lick of sense to me.

Educate me Sir.
Click to expand...
 
It's all about mechanics and the resulting harmonics created in your rifle.
Now, in order to realize the potential effect of the guide rod in any given rifle, the oprod guide on barrel should correctly positioned and anchored to eliminate movement on the barrel.
At this point, the NM guide rods "should" cause a more consistant cycling path for the oprod. Putting it simply, the stock rod allows the spring to compress unevenly and as this wavey, uneven compression takes place, the spring has an effect on the oprod. This effect leads to inconsistant return to battery, which in turn gives inconsistant harmonic vibrations through the barrel.
Am I losing anyone here?
So, as found time and time again by a great many M14 shooters/builders, the addition of an NM guide rod is beneficial to producing repeatable and more consistant accuracy/groups.

These guide rods and their ability to force the spring to compress evenly have a secondary effect which is also beneficial to your rifle. The fact that the action cycling is more consistant in the "patths" the parts move , this leads to less wear of the oprod and receiver at their friction points/bearing locations. Ie: bolt roller and pocket, oprod tab and receiver track ect.

Overall, while replacing sights and flash hider assemlies is an many cases a must do upgrade on the chinese rifles, I also feel that anchoring or NM conditioning the oprod guide and adding an NM oprod spring guide rod are the first steps to seeing the baseline accuracy potential in all M14 type rifles.
Remember, it's just my opinion, and I don't sell/market/manufacture or represent any of the currently availlable NM guide rods that are out there. ;)
 
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