What powder is in Norinco ammo?
- Thread starter ShawnC6
- Start date
I assume it's a 123 gr bullet. If so it's probably something with a burn rate in the range of IMR4198 as you suggest (looking at the bullet weight and amount of powder and exisiting load tables) and that's the first step. The next step is to do what I did with the 223 ammo, but you'll need a chrony and you usually need a variety of powders to do this. In this case I suggest you just get ahold of IMR4198 and pull about six (6) bullets and replace the powder with two loads each of 22, 23 and 24 grs of IMR4198 in the same case with the same primer. Shoot them over the chrony (not into it as I did about 10 years ago!) as well as 3-4 factory ammo and record the averages. The MV's if they match closely will confirm that the burn rate is indeed similar to IMR-4198.
That's what I did with the Norinco 223 using BLC-(2), IMR-4064, H4895 and Varget.
Exactly so. Even if the factory told you that they used, say, 4198, that would not tell you much because the spread of burning rates of powders from lot to lot is quite large. They could have used a fast lot or a slow lot, compared to the canister grade you can buy.
I can recall using Red Dot to load shot shells when I was at CIL. It came as Red Dot 1, or 2, or 3 or 4. I being very fast and 4 being very slow. We would used the speed of powder that gave us the velocity and wad column height we needed.
When we got 4895, some as almost as fast as 3031 and some was almost as slow as 4320. We just used the right amount to get the velocity we needed.
Canister grade powders are the lots that happen to match the speed required for handloaders. The variations in speed are small and close to the same, lot to lot.
I would assume, like Russia, it manufactures it's own under contract from ammunition manufacturers. Only a tiny percentage of powder is bottled and available in the retail market to reloaders. Even most US made ammo does not use any of the types of powder available to reloaders.
Black powder was invented in China but the first country to use smokeless powder was France. Country of origin centuries ago doesn't mean much. That being said I would be incredibly surprised if China didn't produce their own powder.
Black powder was invented in China but the first country to use smokeless powder was France. Country of origin centuries ago doesn't mean much. That being said I would be incredibly surprised if China didn't produce their own powder.
There's a reason he asked, and the reason is not important. Maybe he has for example 1000 rounds of that ammo from the same lot, and wants to use the powder to reload 308, or maybe he's just curious.
Fact is there is a way to determine parameters for a unknown powder to a sufficient extent that it can be used safely. Is it better to say "Don't bother, it's folly", or actually take the opportunity to offer an explanation? Perhaps there are others who might benefit as well.
It was the same kind of dismissive response to my similar questions about 10 years ago ("It's dangerous, don't do it - stick to known powders and load books") that lead me to buy several thousand rounds of the Marstar 8X63 Swedish "Reloader's Special" and in time to develop and share loads for over a dozen different rounds for it. Using what I learned, I've gone on to do similar things with known powders that were without published loads and posted those loads here as recently as a few weeks ago.
....and I'll keep doing it.
You're pretty close. I am doing a few rounds where I would like to replace bullets with a different grain bullet but don't yet want to get fully in depth and invested in it. Based on data I see Itd have to be a pretty close to what I posted to get the velocities. I'll probably start low and go up slowly and see what I get.
Thanks for the help and opinions people.
This is a somewhat different question than the one you originally asked. You want to make "Mexican Match" with a different weight bullet.
Weigh the powder charge. If you want to substitute a 123 gr bullet with a 150 gr bullet, for example, drop the powder charge 2.5 gr and start testing.
Or, see if a commercial powder uses a similar powder charge as what you found in the case, and then look up what is recommended with the same powder with the heavier bullet.
I reduce the powder charge 2 gr in the above example.
so when can we get some powder from china
I asked the original question to do "Or, see if a commercial powder uses a similar powder charge as what you found in the case, and then look up what is recommended with the same powder with the heavier bullet."
Titegroup comes from China?
