What powders in my Winchester super-x?

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thepitchedlink

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So here's my story...Bought my first center fire in a long time and wanted to reload right away...So bought my 30-06 and 2 boxes of Winchester super x, 165's. Got enough stuff to reload my brass with IMR 4350. I figured learn to shoot the gun with the factory rounds and learn reloading with the brass. My first reloads went off the other day and I was soooo happy with the recoil. The super x's where really hurting and the reloads felt much lighter. My brand new, fancy-dancy Chrony showed the reloads going out at 2560 fps, but the super x's at 2950...
Isn't 2950 kinda fast for the 30-06? My reloading manuals don't show many max loads getting that fast, so why the hell is my cheap Crappy Tire ammo going this fast? Now all I want to do is work the reloads up to about 2750 and call it quites. Thinking about pulling the bullets on the last box of super x and re-using the powder in a lighter load. Do we know what powder is in these things? I don't even want to shoot them now as they really kick...here I am worried that my reloads are going to blow my gun up and it's the factory rounds that seem to be pushing the limit.
 
Commercial ammo uses powders similar but not the same as the powders you can buy. Even if we knew which powder it was, it would not be a "canister" lot and would have a different burn rate than the one you can buy.

The velocity you quote sounds very high. The Chrony folds. Make absolutely sure it is open all the way and both cells are vertical.

That said, I have tested some Winchester ammo that was very high pressure and velocity. Not over pressure, but near the limit.

When you handload, use an appropriate powder like RL19 or 4350, and don't go any higher than the factory velocity.
 
Was there a difference in bullet weights between the factory stuff and your handloads? (I know, silly question but....)
 
All where 165's..The chrony is wide open, and shows velocities from low 2800's to mid 2900's. The super x's also kick like a mule. But the big thing I noticed was when I fired my first handloads. First the kick was much less, only about 2500fps, but I noticed right away that the primers looked different. My primers are still round and I was watching them to make sure that they didn't push out due to the lower pressure of the first hew hand loads, But the Super x's are flat...the round shoulder of the primer is gone. So I figure that the speed numbers are right and that the factory loads are right are the pressure limit and the handloads are actually safer and causing less stress on gun, brass and me. I just wondered the the hell is in them, as the factorys have lots of room left in the case, (I can hear the powder shaking around) and are seated deeper. So there's even less room in that case. Whatevers in there sure makes those bullers move, and it's not IMR 4350!!
 
Although I have seen some hot Winchester, it is also possible that your rifle is configured to develop more pressure than usual. Each rifle is different and a 10,000 psi difference from one to the next is not unusual. The big variable is how the chamber throat is cut.

So make your handloads. Use 4350, and work up to a velocity and accuracy you like. Stay under 2800 fps and you have no pressure concerns.

You did not mention the make and model of your rifle. I assume it is not a Remington.
 
Try some more loads, different powders, until you find what you want.
Raw power isn't everything anyways, it's accuracy you really need.
As said above, factory powder lots are different than what we can get, and the methods they use to fill the case, can be ingenious too.
I wouldn't worry too much about the factory stuff feeling hot. Lots of 30-06 stuff from various companies flattens primers.
 
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62 grains of r19 under a 165 should give about 2880 {source Alliant}
52.5grains of IMR 4064 under a 165 should give about 2901 {source Hogdon}
59 grains of H4350 under a 165 should give 2938 {source Hogdon}

The above are from the quoted companies web sites, and are Max loads.
Please check them yourself before use.

Still points up the factory load as a stiff one, however, not out the bounds of manufacturing wizardry.
 
"...Isn't 2950 kinda fast..." Nope. .30 M2 ball ran at 2800fps with a 152 grain bullet. Commercial hunting ammo runs a bit hotter. However, your Super X ammo should be at 2800fps too. That's the advertised velocity. It's not entirely unusual to see factory ammo that has that much variance though.
Don't even think about pulling factory bullets and re-using the powder. Like GANDERITE says, it's not powder reloaders can buy. It's powder the factory uses to get the velocities they're looking for with a particular bullet weight.
"...the reloads..." What bullet weight?
The .30-06 loves 165 grain hunting bullets with IMR4064.
 
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