What round count is your 1911 at? Spartan questions...

CanuckShooter

CanuckShooter

CGN frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
61   0   0
I am considering picking up an STI Spartan, an idea I have been toying with for a long time. I currently have a Norinco Police model which shoots well, but have always kind of wanted a 'nice looking' 1911 with better sights, etc..

With all the reading I have been doing on the Spartan, I have come across a lot of threads talking about cracked 1911 frames. Not on Spartans, but 1911's in general. Most seem to be happening at the beginning of the dust-cover, and some at the slide stop. Reading about all of these cracked frames when I am considering taking the plunge, and spending $900 on a 1911 has made me a bit apprehensive. I would almost say that it has shattered the stellar image I had of the robust, and as some claim 'over-built' 1911.

I am wondering just how likely a 1911 frame is to develop a crack, and at what round count it can happen. It seems that they all crack regardless of cast, forged, or alloy. So I was wondering if the 1911 owners here would mind humouring me with an informal poll.

Please note that this only applies to Government and Commander length 1911's chambered in .45ACP....


1. How many rounds do you have through your 1911? If you own more than one feel free to post multiples, the more the merrier!

2. If your frame developed a crack.... at what round count did the crack occur?

3. Where on the frame did the crack occur?

4. What brand and model of 1911 was it? Cast, alloy, or forged?


The cast frame 1911's that I have seen appear to have a thicker dust-cover than the forged ones (ie. Norinco, Colt, etc..), which makes me feel a bit better. Has anyone else noticed this?

Lastly.... would any STI Spartan owners be willing to drag out the digital calipers and measure the thickness of the dust-cover on their gun? Not the overall width of the dust-cover, but the thickness of the steel that makes up the dust-cover. Is it even on both sides? Unfortunately, nobody around here that I am aware of carries the Spartan so there is no way I can look at one before ordering it.

Thanks
 
I have a Nork, a Colt & a Spartan.

The Nork was cheap (inexpensive) Under $500 from Armco, and tuned to boot (it is probably the best shooter of the 3)

The Spartan was less than the Nork (if you include all the extra parts I put on the Nork that came standard on the Spartan) The Spartan already came with an extended beaver tail, mag release, hammer and fiberoptic front and adjustable rear sight. Cost was $900, again from Armco.

The Colt has all of that (spartan) and was about quadruple the cost of the Nork. $1900 (I got took apparently $1500 is more reasonable)

So far since I have purchased all 3 I have gone through about 1100 rnds (mostly in the Nork) I had about 3K out of the Nork before purhasing the others and I have yet to replace a spring or anything due to breakage or stoppage. Currently the Nork is in pieces on my bench waiting for the Slide to come back from the g-smith who is milling the slide so I can instal an after market front sight and an adjustable rear sight.

Nork Dust cover - .042 Lhs, .052 Rhs & .062 on the bottom
STI Dust cover - .051 Lhs, .053 Rhs, & .066 on the bottom
Colt Dust Cover - .040 Lhs, .037 Rhs & .071 on the bottom

IMHO the Spartan is the VERY BEST DEAL IN A 1911 AVAILABLE TODAY!

Hope this helps bud.
 
spartan

so far I have shot 3000 factory and maybe 4 thousand more of mi own reload, from really hot to mild, and everything s fine but the safety thumb fall off 5 weeks ago and freedon ventures don't answer my phone call i call maybe 20 times and the answer machine full, I bought the sti september 2008.:(
 
I have had the Norinco for about a year and put about 3000 rounds through it. Not a single issue.

Why not put some money into the Norinco, and make a great gun, with some of the best steal in the business. A few guys at my club have done just that. You will spend 500 bucks on it and come out better in my opinion. I am no expert but the Norincos are suitable platforms for a build. Ask Armco.

New manufacturing processes and metals have taken over the industry.

I saw a guy at the range friday with a STI, not sure if it was a Spartan, but he had 2 identical guns he used for comp, 1 being the backup. So he is shooting like mad practising reloads and is having a good time. Then he picks up the "backup gun" all shiny and new. You can tell it doesn't get used as much, and a few rounds later he starts swearin up a storm. Frame cracked starting from the mag release. It was his backup gun that hardly gets used. He said he has put less than 1000 rounds through it, and it is set up identical to the other (main gun). Needless to say he was pissed. So he had 2 guns one used heavily that ran fine and one that he used little and broke after about 1000 rounds. That is not settling to me.
 
Thanks for the replies guys. Don't get me wrong.... I really like the Norc 1911, and it shoots well in my inexperienced hands. The Spartan sounds nice with it's better sights, match fit bushing, etc... but I think I would be afraid to really use it, and god forbid get a mark or scratch on it. I can justify holster wear, and a mark or two on a $375 gun.... but I think I'd be pretty upset if it happened to a $900 gun.

My dad has the same gun as me, but his was tuned by Gunnar, and it's really slick. I will probably get mine tuned, but as far as putting money into it beyond a tuning.... I don't know if I would. It doesn't seem like tricked out Norcs sell for what they are worth. You see them on the EE now and then with a decent amount of money put into them and they are selling fairly low IMO. I mean I would love to get some Heinie-style rear sights put on the Norinco, with a nice fiber optic or large dot front... but to have the slide machined, buy the sights, and have them installed you're talking a lot of money. It would end up costing more than the Spartan which already has those options included.

Man, there has to be more than three 1911 owners on this board! lol
 
IMO the Spartan is just a higher quality beater, got the total of mien around, it must be close to 3000
one you shouldnt mind to shoot, its been build to shoot and tuned to do it even better if you get an armco one. An engraved chromed 1911, that, I wouldnt shoot, but the spartan? GIVE IT A SHOT LITERALLY!

here's my POS spartan, awaiting rebarreling to 400CorBon and a TRUE compensator
p1010027qb.jpg

p1010029qk.jpg

p1010032x.jpg
 
Cracks on the dust cover,just forward of the slide rails,are quite common on 1911's and arent a big problem.They seem to be self limiting.Ive had a few 1911's over the years(Colt,SVI,STI,Norinco,Springfield),and the only one to develop this crack was the Springfield after many,many rounds(probably in excess of 25K major factor rounds).This didnt affect its function.I also had a Star model B many years ago(not really a 1911),and this gun developed cracks all over it(frame/slide etc )after about 1.5K,but was made of very soft metal

The other area to crack is in the slide rails,on the left side where there is a cutout for the slide stop,also not a big problem.It seems that cracks in the slide are more of an issue however.

My last 1911 (a SVI 38 super),had 40K of major loads through it when I sold it,and no cracks at all,Im sure that it could go to 100K without any problems!

A good 1911 will last a very long time,especially in 45 which is a lower pressure round.If you can afford the ammo to wear out a 1911,you shouldnt have any problems buying a new one,so dont sweat it!
 
My early 80's series 80 colt has had 10-15 thousand round through it mostly ipsc major loads. Have broken a slide release, replaced the recoils spring a few times and had to touch up the trigger job but no frame problems yet. I have also used the shock buff system since almost new.
Andy
 
I have an acquaintance with a crack just forward of the slide stop in a pre 70's series Colt. The crack developed around 6000 rounds and now at 10000+ has not gotten any worse or affected the pistol's function at all. Both he and I have other high round count Colt's with no cracks at all.

Most of those that develop cracks, as stated previously, seem to be self limiting.
 
Does anyone know if slight play in the slide to frame fit contiributes or causes the cracks in the dustcover? If I kept the Norc, would getting the slide to frame fit locked up air tight benefit it in the long run? If it makes any difference, there's a little bit of play, and a slight rub mark on the left side of the front portion of the slide from the dustcover (not a scratch, as it can't be felt at all... just a line of bluing rubbed off).

I like my Norc, and even if I did get a Spartan, I don't know if I'd sell it (maybe I'm wrong). Would it be crazy to have TWO 1911's?

What the consensus on whether or not shok-buffs prevent frame cracks?
 
Prior to selling my Colt Gold Cup 70 Series, the gun had seen over 75,000 rounds. Ishot the gun regularily at competitions and though weekly practice at the local range. Of all the time I spent shooting IPSC, I never heard or saw a crack develop in the 1911 styled guns. I would not hesitate to purchase a 1911. I have since replaced the Gold Cup with a 1911.
 
I have a old Us Army colt frame with Springfield slide and high end parts.Wilson ,Brown
MCCormick etc.
Well over 45K round every thing from light target loads to hot plus P loads.
no problems at all.
 
Lifetime warranty. Lifetime warranty. Lifetime warranty. Lifetime warranty. Lifetime warranty. Lifetime warranty. Lifetime warranty. Lifetime warranty. Lifetime warranty. :)

Frame crack? :(

Lifetime warranty. Lifetime warranty. Lifetime warranty. Lifetime warranty. Lifetime warranty. Lifetime warranty. Lifetime warranty. Lifetime warranty. Lifetime warranty.

:D
 
One thing that just suddenly and randomly occured to me, is that if I do get a frame crack on the Spartan.... I hear they have a lifetime warranty.

I'd be interested to know how they handle their Canadian customers' warranty claims. In other words, how well STI backs up their Canadian retailers... since in Canada they're the ones who deal with warranty claims. Also.... I wonder how they would deal with frame cracks specifically. I have read about one or two companies really flaking out on the warranty when presented with a frame crack.
 
CanuckShooter said:
Thanks for the replies guys. Don't get me wrong.... I really like the Norc 1911, and it shoots well in my inexperienced hands. The Spartan sounds nice with it's better sights, match fit bushing, etc... but I think I would be afraid to really use it, and god forbid get a mark or scratch on it. I can justify holster wear, and a mark or two on a $375 gun.... but I think I'd be pretty upset if it happened to a $900 gun.

My dad has the same gun as me, but his was tuned by Gunnar, and it's really slick. I will probably get mine tuned, but as far as putting money into it beyond a tuning.... I don't know if I would. It doesn't seem like tricked out Norcs sell for what they are worth. You see them on the EE now and then with a decent amount of money put into them and they are selling fairly low IMO. I mean I would love to get some Heinie-style rear sights put on the Norinco, with a nice fiber optic or large dot front... but to have the slide machined, buy the sights, and have them installed you're talking a lot of money. It would end up costing more than the Spartan which already has those options included.

Man, there has to be more than three 1911 owners on this board! lol
Click to expand...

Norincos are one gun Wilson Combat will do their magic on. They don't list Kimbers and I doubt you will find they work on Spartans either. While you get a few bells and whisltles with the Spartan the Norinocs are a much better platform to work on IMHO. My Dlask prepared Norinco has an all in cost to me of aroud $1K and I would not consider trading it. Gun has around 5,000 rds through it, and never misses a beat. Gave my Paras to my two sons. I do have an STI Trojan in 9MM which in my view, is a much better gun than the Spartan but does cost a few dollars more.

The new Norinco Police Models are excellent value and really only need a trigger job and perhaps new sights to make them into a jewel of a gun. Unless you are going to shoot bullseye I really don't see the value in adjustable sights on an handgun but to each his own.

Take Care

Bob
 
Slide play apaprently has nothing to do with the cracks. Not all 1911's even in he same production runs develope them. It seems to be a function of the particular frame and secondarily the ue it gets (ie principally round count). I would think the loads used would also have an effect if you are hand loading or using +P loaos. Some older guns are not designed for +P on a consistant basis.

If you really want to tap into a 1911 community I suggest m1911.org. A large and very knowledgeable bunch of 1911 owners.
 
i've got a remington rand - no idea how many rounds through that, and it doesn't happen to every frame-
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom