What side by side?
- Thread starter conor_90
- Start date
Ideal in many ways.
Steel shot aside could guns such as this handle the pressure of modern ammo?
https://intersurplus.com/collections/all-firearms/products/westley-richards-sxs-12ga
How about more modern guns like this? Is steel out of the question even if forcing cones and chokes are tinkered with?
https://intersurplus.com/collections/all-firearms/products/webley-scott-sxs-12ga-16
https://intersurplus.com/products/webley-scott-sxs-12ga-12?_pos=45&_sid=efc3195a9&_ss=r
This gun is basically what my huglu was knocking off in terms of style, I am drooling over it as we speak
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Find it on your own
https://intersurplus.com/collections/all-firearms/products/westley-richards-sxs-12ga
How about more modern guns like this? Is steel out of the question even if forcing cones and chokes are tinkered with?
https://intersurplus.com/collections/all-firearms/products/webley-scott-sxs-12ga-16
https://intersurplus.com/products/webley-scott-sxs-12ga-12?_pos=45&_sid=efc3195a9&_ss=r
This gun is basically what my huglu was knocking off in terms of style, I am drooling over it as we speak
############
Find it on your own
Last edited:
I think a post WWII British Webley and Scott in a 26-28-30 barrel length and 2 3/4length 1 1/4oz chambers would be a good choice for an ‘all-rounder’.
Like AR15meister says they aren’t perfect for any one thing necessarily but you could do a lot with one.
And that’s the fun of SxS’s too, that there are a lot of different configurations for different applications to collect, which I think is also what he is saying.
In an earlier post I wrote that British guns are so often worked -over and maybe that was too far a statement.
It’s that a lot can happen to a gun that is 80-140yrs old.
A lot of use, adjustment/alteration and possible repair.
Plus there are different mechanisms, materials and proof laws with the change from black powder to smokeless all to consider.
So I’m just saying that it takes a little more doing or knowing to evaluate one.
After I read your post with links to those Intersurplus guns I got looking at what SKBs and Rowning Bss were also available out tyere on the internet.
And anything more modern like those or the Brownings and Berettas I think aren’t quite the same as a British gun for handling.
I’d choose a more modern W&S over anything else…. I’ve never had much of a thing for American guns so somebody else will have to speak for them.
No I think that a Webley&Scott is the closest thing that checks all of your boxes.
And it has that classic British feel which it has over all the others.
The Huglu once it’s working with straight stock and double trigger is the best modern version imo and the price is right.
I have read that the W&Ss are generally built well and are strong.
So yah shoot bismuth in the 2 3/4 or if you are a daredevil and the chokes are not super tight you may choose to shoot steel.
Maybe you don’t want anymore risks after the thumb incident?
And trashing the gun might not be so cool, especially if it is like 1500-2k, which is a lot of money.
One thing re a W&S, get clear barrel flat pics that show all of the proofs as well as the serial number.
If you like post them here and we can help clarify them.
The serial numbers for W&S are online which should date it, as will some stamps possibly as sometimes there’s a date code.
Also the flats may show what the original proofs are, and if it has been reproofed or possibly sleeved.
Sleeved barrels are newer and attached the original gun and while strong and safe you may want to know this before buying.
Another thing to consider is stock length and cast.
Try to make sure that it is either neutral cast or cast on or off for you, being LH or RH respectively.
Stock length of pull ~14 1/2 measured to front trigger is a good all round length.
I’m 6’ tall and ideally would shoot sporting clays with a 14 3/4 to 15 lop and hunt with 14 3/4 to 14.
Really though I have found you get used to the different lengths and shoot what it is.
I personally would stick between 14-15 for someone of my size and arm length etc.
Drop can be an issue on older guns but these newish W&S look to be fine.
Also on an ejector you have to check that the ejectors are working with snap caps or whatever, which they probably are on a gun like that.
I think a 26” barreled Webley and Scott with 2 3/4” chambers and proofs would be a cool gun and totally functional for lots of different shooting, upland, ducks or clays.
Like AR15meister says they aren’t perfect for any one thing necessarily but you could do a lot with one.
And that’s the fun of SxS’s too, that there are a lot of different configurations for different applications to collect, which I think is also what he is saying.
In an earlier post I wrote that British guns are so often worked -over and maybe that was too far a statement.
It’s that a lot can happen to a gun that is 80-140yrs old.
A lot of use, adjustment/alteration and possible repair.
Plus there are different mechanisms, materials and proof laws with the change from black powder to smokeless all to consider.
So I’m just saying that it takes a little more doing or knowing to evaluate one.
After I read your post with links to those Intersurplus guns I got looking at what SKBs and Rowning Bss were also available out tyere on the internet.
And anything more modern like those or the Brownings and Berettas I think aren’t quite the same as a British gun for handling.
I’d choose a more modern W&S over anything else…. I’ve never had much of a thing for American guns so somebody else will have to speak for them.
No I think that a Webley&Scott is the closest thing that checks all of your boxes.
And it has that classic British feel which it has over all the others.
The Huglu once it’s working with straight stock and double trigger is the best modern version imo and the price is right.
I have read that the W&Ss are generally built well and are strong.
So yah shoot bismuth in the 2 3/4 or if you are a daredevil and the chokes are not super tight you may choose to shoot steel.
Maybe you don’t want anymore risks after the thumb incident?
And trashing the gun might not be so cool, especially if it is like 1500-2k, which is a lot of money.
One thing re a W&S, get clear barrel flat pics that show all of the proofs as well as the serial number.
If you like post them here and we can help clarify them.
The serial numbers for W&S are online which should date it, as will some stamps possibly as sometimes there’s a date code.
Also the flats may show what the original proofs are, and if it has been reproofed or possibly sleeved.
Sleeved barrels are newer and attached the original gun and while strong and safe you may want to know this before buying.
Another thing to consider is stock length and cast.
Try to make sure that it is either neutral cast or cast on or off for you, being LH or RH respectively.
Stock length of pull ~14 1/2 measured to front trigger is a good all round length.
I’m 6’ tall and ideally would shoot sporting clays with a 14 3/4 to 15 lop and hunt with 14 3/4 to 14.
Really though I have found you get used to the different lengths and shoot what it is.
I personally would stick between 14-15 for someone of my size and arm length etc.
Drop can be an issue on older guns but these newish W&S look to be fine.
Also on an ejector you have to check that the ejectors are working with snap caps or whatever, which they probably are on a gun like that.
I think a 26” barreled Webley and Scott with 2 3/4” chambers and proofs would be a cool gun and totally functional for lots of different shooting, upland, ducks or clays.
I needed a double twelve to replace my dad's old Tobin. I tried a couple here and there and settled on a nice old Ithaca, selective single trigger. It took some getting used to the single trigger business, but it has now settled in to the pile. I paid through the nose for the Ithaca. I bought another one with a little bulge in one barrel, had it shortened to eliminate the bulge. It is very hard to open after firing.
Would the risk in shooting steel come from the forcing cones and not the chokes then?
I agree they would make good all around guns. Is this not what they were used for at the turn of the century? Might get some funny looks in the duck blind but I'm a funny guy...
Current availability of bismuth makes it a bit prohibitive. Not to mention 100's of steel shells I was given or purchased
Spend $500 and get a Fox 12 gauge. Built between 1906 and 1939. Theoretically not designed for modern ammo but if you get a post 1925 gun, modern powder and pressures were being used. Fox's barrels are typically built like a tank. And many have spent the 50 years from 1950 to 2000 having fully modern ammo shot out of them with no ill affects. I have a 1909 Fox 12 gauge I have no hesitation using my Kent TM 1 3/8 loads.
I'm saying 12 gauge because the guns will be between 7 1/4 and 7 1/2 pounds. Enough weight to manage duck loads. If you want a great gun, buy the same gun in 16 or 20 and you won't find a better handling SxS.
I'm saying 12 gauge because the guns will be between 7 1/4 and 7 1/2 pounds. Enough weight to manage duck loads. If you want a great gun, buy the same gun in 16 or 20 and you won't find a better handling SxS.
I’m talking about modern load pressures, with respect to proof pressures in the chambers and what they can withstand, not the shot material and potential wear on the rest of the bore.
I don’t know where steel causes the most damage in the barrels, I thought it was always the tight full choke at the muzzle end that was most vulnerable, because of the high speed and hard material slamming against the constriction, although I suppose that forcing cones might be at risk too?
Maybe someone else can clear that up?
I did shoot steel outta my full choked BRNO, not that much, but I was maybe reckless, or simply not that aware or concerned back then.
It wouldn’t be dangerous. And as long as you kept the shot size reasonable (above 4?) it won’t damage the barrels.
This. Don’t want to risk damaging the barrels if the gun is a keeper is all.
I’ve read that steel shot CAN be hard on older barrels, barrels made pre steel shot.
Not dangerous, the gun is not going to explode or peel like a banana.
Some older full choked guns have got bulged barrels at the chokes though due to steel shot.
I didn’t experience that in my BRNO, it was fine.
Honestly conor_90 I wouldn’t let steel shot be the hang up.
If it is just use your Huglu, or buy a somewhat less expensive expendable banger (one these built like tanks duck guns as have been suggested, and duck guns are meant to get dirty anyways), or just shoot steel sparingly in your good gun, or what about lead ?? Oh wait, that can’t be suggested can it??
Bismuth loads are expensive but they kill well.
That's more or less what I have here, mine being an earlier Sterlingworth pin gun (1911 -1913). It was a beater when I got it so got Chris Dawe to spruce it up a bit and open the 30" bbls to IC/M.
I like it.
That pin Fox is looking good SC. Chris has one of mine right now...he teased me with some pcis this morning.
I think it's a no brainer approach for someone who wants to economically and safely dip their toe in the SxS pool. The difference in quality between and Fox and some of the more "modern" 2' x 4"s mentioned in this thread can't underestimated. Make sure the chokes are at least opened to mod (that will pattern close to a full with modern ammo) and shoot away .
I think it's a no brainer approach for someone who wants to economically and safely dip their toe in the SxS pool. The difference in quality between and Fox and some of the more "modern" 2' x 4"s mentioned in this thread can't underestimated. Make sure the chokes are at least opened to mod (that will pattern close to a full with modern ammo) and shoot away .
50yr old Merkels and Simpson/Suhl SxS's are out there for under $1000. Very well and robustly made, especially the "Q1's". Double triggers and you'd need to open the chokes, but you'll never wear one out. There are a few on another online gun posting site currently.
" Is there a modern side by side that splits the difference between huglus and 5000 dollar berretas in quality and price and has english styling"
"Baikal"
"East German guns from the 60's"
To be fair I did say:
"Open to opinions, rants and outlandish suggestions. Thanks guys"
But that's just because I knew they were coming anyways
"Baikal"
"East German guns from the 60's"
To be fair I did say:
"Open to opinions, rants and outlandish suggestions. Thanks guys"
But that's just because I knew they were coming anyways
Well - I think its fair to say that guns like those import Webley and Scotts are sub-optimal for waterfowl hunting. Between the 2 (1/2 or 3/4) inch chambers, light weight, tight chokes, and splinter fore-end (heavy gloves??), there is little to be desired. Have you written off your Huglu? In a functional state it would certainly serve for waterfowl.
