What to do with 8mm Mauser PPU

[PinkyPlinker]

I bought a couple hundred rounds of the PPU 8mm Mauser for my M48. From what I read this stuff is really under charged, as my groups agree with. This stuff is different from the 8x57 hotter load from PPU. My groups are horrid and I have the rear sight on 400m to get it anywhere near center. Others have said they get similar results.

So what to do with it...
1. Pull bullets, start laddering up the charge - I don’t know what powder they’ve used or have a chrono.
2. Pull bullets and reload with known powder on a book recipe.

Anyone been down this road? Any info to get me over the speed bumps is appreciated.

 

[kjohn]

#2 for the win.

I've done much the same thing with "reloads" of unknown recipe, when the brass is of a rather odd caliber.

In fact, I have a few boxes of 300WM that came with a Browning auto loader a few years back. I'll pull the bullets, dump the powder, and keep the bullets. Somebody will get a rocking good deal on a bunch of 300WM primed brass at a gun show.

 

[fiddler]

They are easy to pull and toss away the powder to favor a known good charge, or just blast them off and keep the brass. Usually PPU is good quality brass, but I haven't shot much of it.

My M48s prefer a long 195gr bullet with a max load. Not all of them shoot the same elevation.

 

[Ganderite]

Pull the bullets and save the powder. There is over a pound of powder in 200 rounds.

If you had a chony (or use of one) you could make some test rounds in 0.5 gr increments up to 5 gr more and test for velocity.

If not, use 4350 type powder and throw new loads. Save the pulled powder for making plinking ammo in something else.

The weight of the charge and bullet will allow you to compare to the loading manual for a powder approximately the same speed. Use that listed powder for making your plinkers.

Or, if you have a can of the similar speed powder, mix the two together.

 

[philhut]

I shot a whole box 10 rds each through a couple of my mausers in 8mm. These rifles are typically very accurate but I could not figure out where my PPU rounds even landed with either rifle. 1 scoped, 1 irons. Chose not to get that ammo again. It was the lightest recoiling 8mm I had ever fired.

 

[SteelFlint]

Hmmm so basically bunk out of the box. Thx for the thread, been looking for 8mm rounds for my K98 which I have yet to fire. I don't reload, so will stay away from PPU 8mms now.

 

[PinkyPlinker]

Hmmm so basically bunk out of the box. Thx for the thread, been looking for 8mm rounds for my K98 which I have yet to fire. I don't reload, so will stay away from PPU 8mms now.

I should clarify that there are two 8mm PPU packagings, one marked 8mm Mauser (weak) and one marked 8x57 which I can’t speak for but I’ve read is hotter, much closer to mil spec.

I really want to use the powder, as Ganderite says there’s lots there. To get an idea of what powder it may be similar to, I need more than weight of this anemic charge. I need to chrono it, or if someone has measured it please let me know.
Most likely I’ll end up replacing with known powder, putting the dumped PPU powder in a container to be forgotten about for years until it really becomes mystery powder.

 

[9.3mauser]

I would do it the way Ganderite described; pull them all, save the powder and re-weigh the charges. Seems a waste to dump it in a can and forget about it.

 

[cheb]

Hmmm so basically bunk out of the box. Thx for the thread, been looking for 8mm rounds for my K98 which I have yet to fire. I don't reload, so will stay away from PPU 8mms now.

The PPU ammo groups well, quite a bit better than my surplus ammo, but it is definitively under-powered relative to the Yugo 53 surplus... Once the correct sight setting is found, you are good to go. The PPU ammo is more than fine for target shooting. In my M-48a, the PPU (198gr FMJ) shoots about 8" low at 100 m using the 200 m sight setting, whereas the Yugo surplus shoots about 7" high at the same setting. Quite a bit of difference, enough to not be on paper if unaware of the trajectory. When shooting PPU, I simply adjust the sight up a notch or two (depending on distance) to bring the point-of-impact closer to point-of-aim.

I am keeping my PPU brass to eventually start reloading. As far as I am concerned, once you have dialed-in the correct sight setting, the PPU is pretty good ammo for range days when one does not want to deal with corrosive ammo. Otherwise, I usually shoot Yugo surplus. Both have gone up markedly in price since purchased, In hindsight, I should have both way more...

 

[vagrantviking]

I would go with option one.
I'm a cheap bugger and like to tinker.

A chronograph would help but you should be able to ramp up I one or half grain increments, 3 or 5 rounds at a time watching for pressure signs and looking for the sight settings to get at least a bit closer. Presuming the bullet weight is similar to what they are meant for.

 

[PinkyPlinker]

I think all the guys who bought up the M******r Swede 8mm also bought up all the 8mm collets. Can’t find one for my RCBS puller anywhere in Canada. Doesn’t seem to be a stock item for most even.
Either way, first order of business is to pull them and weigh charges. This is good reason as any to pick up a chrono too.

 

[kjohn]

PP: Seems to me I used a .30 cal collet to pull some 8mm bullets. I might be out to lunch on that, though.

 

[riversrest]

I've shot them out of a 8mm Husqvarna. Did not get very good groups, maybe 5" at 100 m and 8" low in compare to Sellier & Bellot (SPCE) which I've also tried. They did group a bit better around 2.5" but with some fliers about 5" off.

The Hornady Custom International works best for me/rifle. Speed/energy wise they seem to be in between PPU and SB. I can keep a 3 shot group in 1 1/4". Not high precision by any means but sufficient enough for hunting.

You could plink with them and then work with the fire formed cases or pull them and go from there. Your call...

RR

 

[Ced1942]

Sell them to me, my rc k98k loooooove that stuff

 

[The_Champ]

My VZ-24 and Vergueiro seem to group fine with the lighter 8mm Mauser loads. I honestly appreciate a little less recoil compared to those hot 8x57 loads from PPU and S&B.

 

[PinkyPlinker]

Finally got a chance to pull a few rounds. I have two different lots, one older lot in a lighter blue box and a newer lot in dark blue boxes. I’ve shot the light blue stuff, horribly low. Haven’t tried the newer stuff but in the few rounds I pulled (3 of each) it seemed less consistent than the older, granted small sample size.

Light blue box
Round 1. 3.3488gram charge, 12.85gram projectile
Round 2. 3.3305gram charge, 12.84gram projectile
Round 3. 3.3354gram charge, 12.85gram projectile



Dark blue box

Round 1. 3.3167gram charge, 12.89gram projectile
Round 2. 3.3332gram charge, 12.88gram projectile
Round 3. 3.3068gram charge, 12.99gram projectile

 

[smellie]

If performance of the ammo is erratic, the first suspect MUST be the primers. Those old corrosive-type primers were made with mercury fulminate and/or with a mixture based on potassium chlorate. BOTH are affected adversely by TIME and CONTAMINANTS and TEMPERATURE.

SOLUTION is to switch over the entire charge to a casing primed with a modern NCNM primer; these are NOT measurably affected by the factors above.

I did this with some Turkish ammo which had an enormously-crappy reputation (earned well)..... and discovered that I had a bunch of ammo which would easily shoot 1-MOA groups out of a Gew 98, a Kar 98B and an ##.

Try it: it is the fastest, cheapest thing you can do and it WORKS.

Remember, always, the POWDER is NOT affected if it was made properly in the first place...... and nearly all of it was.




WHY won't this thing let me put up the letters "eh zed"? Is there some kind of ritual attached? Do we need a virgin to sacrifice? It's a Kar 98a with mods; if there is anything else, I don't know about it!

 

[Desert_Fox]

Sage advice, Smellie.

 

[Potashminer]

Prvi Partizan apparently makes both SAAMI and CIP compliant ammunition for this cartridge - 75 meters per second difference in muzzle velocity between the two with identical bullets (Bullet B-022, 198 grain FMJBT). As I understand this, 8x57IS is the European C.I.P. name for the cartridge and they set their max pressure at 56,565 Max pressure. The American SAAMI names the cartridge 8mm Mauser, or 8x57, and limits Max pressure to 35,000 psi. Going to be difference in performance, but not unexpected if one understands that 8mm Mauser is not 8x57IS (or JS, in some areas).
The 8x57 IRS (JRS) is a rimmed version - not the same case.
Added - from PPU website, looks like that B-022 bullet is .322" so might be undersize for milsurps?? No idea why they do that but looks like most weights of 8mm bullets are made in both .322" and .323" as well as a couple much larger - up to .330" and still referred to as "8mm"!!

 

[PinkyPlinker]

Finally got a chance to test and chrono this stuff at the range. Very surprised at the consistency of it - I thought my chrono was faulty when the first three shots measured an identical 2224 ft/s. Fourth was 2229. It didn’t vary much from there.
Once I got the rear sight dialed in, again a 400m setting, it really grouped well. Close to MOA, which I’ve rarely shot with open sights on anything.
Conclusion, I will shoot it as is on the 400 setting and reload from spent. It’s anemic, but accurate and consistent.