What went wrong?

Onagoth

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Just to report on my recent trip to the range testing my first batch of handloads ever, for my 22-250

I loaded 55 gr Vmax's with 38 grains H380 into factory new brass. The brass was had nothing done to it prior to loading it.

The groups I got, were...well not really groups at all. There was as much as 8" between holes. I was pretty glad my first batch didn't explode or anything, and there weren't any signs of excess pressure, but I was disappointed with the results.

I'm not sure if its the charge in each casing??? The scale powder measure doesn't seem that accurate to me, I have a digital one coming and will retest this load, but can any of you fellow nutz think of what I might be doing wrong??

Thanks,
 
Probable cause it if the casing was not full length sized prior to loading. Not all powder measures the same grains of powder. Digital scales and hand loading powder makes a world of difference. Seating the bullet out of the "over all length" can cause different trajectories also.
 
If using optical sighting system, the first thing I would check is my rings/bases to ensure they hadnt backed off at some point...Then the action screws etc...
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Don't think its a problem with optics, on the same day I shot 0.7" groups with factory ammo

I also seated all the bullets to exactly the right overall length, 2.345", and also, the lyman book said FL sizing is not required for factory new brass, but apparently alot of guys do anyways??

I have a FL die coming in, so I will probably FL size all the new brass just to test it out.
 
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So much for that idea..Always a good place to start tho. As WT stated above OAL is another area to investigate. Also may want to mic the bullets to ensure they are within spec...Thats a pretty wild spread for a published(?) load so u most certainly have something to be concerned over. Hogdon shows 38g as the min for that load up to 41g for the max so u are definately in the ballpark.
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Don't think its a problem with optics, on the same day I shot 0.7" groups with factory ammo

I also seated all the bullets to exactly the right overall length, 2.345", and also, the lyman book said FL sizing is not required for factory new brass, but apparently alot of guys do anyways??

I have a FL die coming in, so I will probably FL size all the new brass just to test it out.

Well given that the 22/250 is of the most consistant cartridges in the world. I would say case variation was a large part of it. You have taken some of that out by firing them. Now the trick with those is to smoke the neck on one and size only till you approach the shoulder.NOT all the way to it. Then you want to get a consistant charge. Then all projectiles must be seated to same depth in cases trimmed to same length about .005 under max oughta do. All that should easily break the inch. Then you got to play with seating depth to see what that gun likes. Typically if your mag will handle the length .010 or so off the rifling is a good starter

PS. When I say dont touch the shoulder I mean it. ie dont even tumble brass thats been chamber formed. Rattling together is even enough to cause shoulder variations, and you want that shoulder staying put. Well I think I've been clear on leaving the shoulder where it was;)

Although wrong twist for bullet combo shouldnt throw things off 8 inches. What is the twist?Most 22/250's I've seen like light stuff movin out fast. Before I'm jumped on I didnt say all
 
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Well given that the 22/250 is of the most consistant cartridges in the world. I would say case variation was a large part of it. You have taken some of that out by firing them. Now the trick with those is to smoke the neck on one and size only till you approach the shoulder.NOT all the way to it. Then you want to get a consistant charge. Then all projectiles must be seated to same depth in cases trimmed to same length about .005 under max oughta do. All that should easily break the inch. Then you got to play with seating depth to see what that gun likes. Typically if your mag will handle the length .010 or so off the rifling is a good starter

PS. When I say dont touch the shoulder I mean it. ie dont even tumble brass thats been chamber formed. Rattling together is even enough to cause shoulder variations, and you want that shoulder staying put. Well I think I've been clear on leaving the shoulder where it was;)

Although wrong twist for bullet combo shouldnt throw things off 8 inches. What is the twist?Most 22/250's I've seen like light stuff movin out fast. Before I'm jumped on I didnt say all

Thanks for the good info, I have a collet neck sizing die so that should simplify the neck sizing right? Without having to smoke a cartridge?

How do I know how to seat the bullet 0.01" off the rifling, is that the same as seating 0.01" less than maximum overall length??

The twist in 14", and my rifle does seem to like the lighter bullets, at least for now anyways.

Also, I am primarily using the rounds for hunting, does that mean I should FL size every cartridge?

Thanks
 
Just to report on my recent trip to the range testing my first batch of handloads ever, for my 22-250

I loaded 55 gr Vmax's with 38 grains H380 into factory new brass. The brass was had nothing done to it prior to loading it.

The groups I got, were...well not really groups at all. There was as much as 8" between holes. I was pretty glad my first batch didn't explode or anything, and there weren't any signs of excess pressure, but I was disappointed with the results.

I'm not sure if its the charge in each casing??? The scale powder measure doesn't seem that accurate to me, I have a digital one coming and will retest this load, but can any of you fellow nutz think of what I might be doing wrong??

Thanks,


This is an interesting post for me. Im working on load development as well for my Vanguard 22-250 using 55gr Nosler BTs and H380 powder.
First range session my groups were all bad. The factory ammo looked amazing compared to my loads. I had the bullets seated 0.02 off of the lands as a starting point. Next batch of loads I tried again withe pretty much the same powder charge but the bullets seated 0.05 off the lands. All groups shrunk down almost an acceptable level. Next I'm going to adjust the powder charge a bit and see if that gives me any improvements.
 
Well, I think I figured out part of the problem,

I doubled checked some of the rounds which I didn't fire that day, and there overall length came in a 2.339, about 0.01 less than max.

I think I will try seating them to the recommended length, and seating some to 2.345.

Will let you know if that makes a diff.

Thanks
 
Well, I think I figured out part of the problem,

I doubled checked some of the rounds which I didn't fire that day, and there overall length came in a 2.339, about 0.01 less than max.

I think I will try seating them to the recommended length, and seating some to 2.345.

Will let you know if that makes a diff.

Thanks

Your freshly trimmed sized brass should be .010 short of max overall length to give som eroom for stretching during resizing. I would bet the brass was form a bag and had all sorts of diameters at the mouth if you didn't at least size, chamfer and debur the case mouths.
 
I usually get best results with bullet 10 to 20 thou off the rifling.

Max OAL in book refers to their rifle. Your max depends on magazine length and chamber throat. One willde termine the MAx OAL for your rifle.

When you start a loading session with a new bullet, seat the bullet long, and gently chamber it. There should be rifling marks on the bullet. Back the seater stem out a bit and repeat on another round. Keep doing this until chambering does not leaving 4 or 5 little rifling marks around the bullet. Measure that round and record as the max OAL for that bullet.

The re-seat all the rounds you have played with. Then load 5 at that OAL, and then 5 more at 5, 10 and 15 thou shorter.

Shoot these and see what the rifle likes.

I have a selection of 22 bullets on my bench and use them to verify my scales from time to time. I usually use the 45 or 50 gr bullet, sicen that is the type of powder charge i throw.

If you are using a balance beam scales, be careful. It is easy to make a 5 grain error in either direction.

Can you pull a round form the stuff that grouped poorly and weigh the charge?
 
As stated by others OAL is specific to your rifle, and not from a book. Frankly, I dont think that the OAL is your issue, and you shouldnt spent too much time diddling with it. Also, as a newbie, you'll have trouble holding a small throat clearance - best to stick to 30 thou or more. FWIW - Your factory ammo probably has a clearance of at least twice that.
My theory - charge weights arent consistent.. Alternatively, isnt H380 a ball powder? I've never had much luck with ball powders. Some folks claim that they require a magnum primer to acheive proper ignition, moreso in the winter. Perhaps others can comment on this.
 
8 in. groups are pretty dramatic from your handloads if factory ammo shoots into less than an inch. I wouldn't expect that FL sizing will normally make that much difference, in fact most reloaders neck size only, to improve accuracy.



I would try weighing each charge individually for 10-20 cartridges just to see if it improved group sizes. Also, IF your load is close to the minimum powder charge, I would try adjusting the powder upwards in 0.5 gr steps to see if that made any improvement, but do not go below or above published min or max powder charge, and observe your fired cases for signs of over pressure. Quite often warmer loads shoot more accurately than minimum loads do.
 
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When you are looking for advice give all the load data you are using including the type of primer you selected. What primer did the manual say they used? Did you use the same or something different? Ball powders have a bit more need for proper primer to get consistent ignition and pressures than some other powders. As previously mentioned be sure you have an appropriate primer.

A proper powder scale should give you very accurate measuring if you are using it correctly and have pre-balanced (zeroed) the beam and empty pan.
 
I used winchester large rifle primer, as recommended in the book.

I still have some new unfired brass, which I will probably try loading when my digital scale comes in. I will keep in mind the seating depth and case prep for new brass. If there is any other recommendations, that would be great.

Thanks for all the feedback,
 
I still have some new unfired brass, which I will probably try loading when my digital scale comes in. I will keep in mind the seating depth and case prep for new brass. If there is any other recommendations, that would be great./QUOTE]

F/L RESIZE NEW BRASS FIRST AND ALWAYS. You can monkey around with fine tuning neck or partial sizing after fire-forming to your chamber. Be consistent with everything you do. Don't change your routine unless there's a problem. 30,40,50 thou change in OAL doesn't explain 8" groups - that takes something more significant like dramatic powder charge variations and very different bullet weights. I might be inclined to fire a quick 3-shot group of the previous ammo that you said was shooting well. Something's not right. I don't think I could get an 8" group swinging from minimum to max charges plus extreme seating depth changes with any of my rifles without also changing bullet weights.
 
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