what's a barrel worth?
- Thread starter bruno
- Start date
Terry Perkins
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Bruce County
The barrel alone will cost $375 to $475 approximately. Gun smithing costs will add a minimum of $200. Think about spending $700.
300 more for what: The barrel?? Bulls*it.
Exchange is the best it has been in 5 months New stainless Kriegers are selling in most calibers for $460 CDN right now. Krieger does not however pre-chamber or make drop in bolt gun barrels. Too many varaibles to ensure optimal chamber dimensions, headspace and throat/neck specs.
Exchange is the best it has been in 5 months New stainless Kriegers are selling in most calibers for $460 CDN right now. Krieger does not however pre-chamber or make drop in bolt gun barrels. Too many varaibles to ensure optimal chamber dimensions, headspace and throat/neck specs.
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Yup I know that, been very happy with the 2 I have. Both shoot up to my expectations, and clean very easy. There may be better out there, but for the money I think they are hard to beat. This is just one guys opinion though. Also 26 inches is lots long enough for my hunting rifles. I am not a bench shooter by any means, but when I can get my hunting rifle to shoot like this off the bench, it is more than I need for any wobbly off hand shot I'll ever make in the field.
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From Shilen's website:
Should I "cryo" my barrel?
If you have heard that the cryogenic treatment stress relieves steel, this is false. We have measured the residual stress in 4140 and 416 steel with a process called x-ray diffraction. After much R&D, we have not been able to measure any changes in molecular stress after cryo treatment. For this reason we do not endorse the cryogenic process, but we can safely say that it is not detrimental to the barrel either.
Should I "cryo" my barrel?
If you have heard that the cryogenic treatment stress relieves steel, this is false. We have measured the residual stress in 4140 and 416 steel with a process called x-ray diffraction. After much R&D, we have not been able to measure any changes in molecular stress after cryo treatment. For this reason we do not endorse the cryogenic process, but we can safely say that it is not detrimental to the barrel either.
Only Button-Rifled The Jury's not out that cut barrels are the ultimate way to make a barrel. there are lot of records not beat yet with cut barrels.
here is what a pretty well renowned barrel maker says !!
.... What is button rifling?
Button rifling is a barrel making process, in which a carbide button is pushed through a rifle barrel under pressure to displace metal to make the twist in a barrel. We believe that this type of rifling method is superior to other methods as it maintains a more uniform twist rate and depth of groove. Once you have a good button every barrel is the same as the last. Other methods require many passes to make one barrel, making it more difficult to produce uniform results.
Jimmy Hart is a pretty good smith as well as a supurb barrel maker
manitou
The OP's question was barrel + chambered, threaded, and crowned.
My bill, from you, dated last August: $488.25. Yes, shipping and tax count.
The gunsmith work, plus shipping and tax came to $378.00. Mind you, this included assembling the action, beading the recoil lug, and setting the trigger pull.
So $866 for my "package". With exchange being what it is, I was figuring around $900 - or about $300 more than Terry's estimate.
rnbra-shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Brunswick
Are gunsmiths charging $200+ to install a barrel these days? (yikes!)
I really don't understand the high prices being charged to install a barrel - it's not a very difficult thing to do on a bolt action target rifle (whereas it can be a much bigger job e.g. on a hunting rifle with iron sights, or on an M-14).
With a properly setup shop, it's about a 1.25-1.50 hour job for a first-rate machinist to thread, chamber and crown a barrel. It seems to me therefore that $125-$150 is a sensible price for a barrel installation (assuming $100/hr is a fair rate to charge for a properly setup machinist to charge).
Someone who isn't properly set up, but knows what he is doing and cares enough to do a good job, will take longer in order to produce a first-rate job - perhaps as long as 3-4 hours. I've done the occasional barrel myself, I think I spent 6-8 hours on the last one that I did.
I don't mind if a gunsmith isn't properly setup to do a barrel job in 1.5 hours, but if he isn't, in a way that's his "fault", or perhaps more accurately, his choice as to what tooling and equipment he has decided to invest in. It doesn't seem right to me to charge a fully loaded shop rate for the number of hours it actually took to do a job, when the number of hours for the job is longer because the shop happens not to be setup to do that kind of work.
I really don't understand the high prices being charged to install a barrel - it's not a very difficult thing to do on a bolt action target rifle (whereas it can be a much bigger job e.g. on a hunting rifle with iron sights, or on an M-14).
With a properly setup shop, it's about a 1.25-1.50 hour job for a first-rate machinist to thread, chamber and crown a barrel. It seems to me therefore that $125-$150 is a sensible price for a barrel installation (assuming $100/hr is a fair rate to charge for a properly setup machinist to charge).
Someone who isn't properly set up, but knows what he is doing and cares enough to do a good job, will take longer in order to produce a first-rate job - perhaps as long as 3-4 hours. I've done the occasional barrel myself, I think I spent 6-8 hours on the last one that I did.
I don't mind if a gunsmith isn't properly setup to do a barrel job in 1.5 hours, but if he isn't, in a way that's his "fault", or perhaps more accurately, his choice as to what tooling and equipment he has decided to invest in. It doesn't seem right to me to charge a fully loaded shop rate for the number of hours it actually took to do a job, when the number of hours for the job is longer because the shop happens not to be setup to do that kind of work.
So I was doing some reading. It's interesting that almost all of the companys that offer cryogenic treatment of rifles make claims of stress relief. Another source stated that the effect of increasing steel hardness is related to the same shift in crystalline structures as stress relief. Interestingly they did a little test by shooting non-treated barrels and then treated them and then shot them again. On average (but not always) there was an improvement in group size however the difference did not appear to be statistically significant (given the standard deviations).
Has Krieger published any data regarding the effects of cryogenic treatment? I would be interested to learn more. My post was not intended as a criticism of Krieger but rather something that I found to be interesting. What is the benefit of increasing hardness? Barrel life? Accuracy? If the benefit lies in hardness and not stress relief it is peculiar that several companies that offer cryogenic services are missing the boat and only making claims about stress relief. Anyway, anything you could add would be interesting.
Cheers.
Has Krieger published any data regarding the effects of cryogenic treatment? I would be interested to learn more. My post was not intended as a criticism of Krieger but rather something that I found to be interesting. What is the benefit of increasing hardness? Barrel life? Accuracy? If the benefit lies in hardness and not stress relief it is peculiar that several companies that offer cryogenic services are missing the boat and only making claims about stress relief. Anyway, anything you could add would be interesting.
Cheers.
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Hi Fury,
I wish Krieger had more objective data on the subject (rather like my criticism of the lack of data on barrel break-in) however, one of the CGN contributors here "rpollock" has dome some excellent research on the subject of cryo treating and its benefits to dimensional stability and hardness.
I do not believe it improves accuracy, but it does affect wear resistance. Anecdotally, this certainly seems to be true as I have heard many accounts of 6BR's still competitive after 2500 rounds, which is the normal accurate life span.
Several hours of high temperature with a slow cool-down are required to stress relieve barrels, and as many machinists have expressed to me, it is not possible to 100% stress relieve any buttoned barrel. I would think that cryo treating would have the potential to negatively affect stressed steel. Like so many claims in the shooting industry, there are many compelling claims, but little background revealed into the methodology used in their research or the basis of their conclusions.
I wish Krieger had more objective data on the subject (rather like my criticism of the lack of data on barrel break-in) however, one of the CGN contributors here "rpollock" has dome some excellent research on the subject of cryo treating and its benefits to dimensional stability and hardness.
I do not believe it improves accuracy, but it does affect wear resistance. Anecdotally, this certainly seems to be true as I have heard many accounts of 6BR's still competitive after 2500 rounds, which is the normal accurate life span.
Several hours of high temperature with a slow cool-down are required to stress relieve barrels, and as many machinists have expressed to me, it is not possible to 100% stress relieve any buttoned barrel. I would think that cryo treating would have the potential to negatively affect stressed steel. Like so many claims in the shooting industry, there are many compelling claims, but little background revealed into the methodology used in their research or the basis of their conclusions.
Interesting reply. Not that this is entirely related, but it's funny when specific things are done in specifc way because "that's they way we do it here." Some of the procedures used in the lab were I do my research (I'm a geneticist) are certainly done in that manner. It seems like "if it ain't broke don't fix it" rather than collecting data on optimizing a procedure. Is cryogenic treatment an expensive procedure? If not I wonder why other barrel makers like Shilen and others don't do it. Are they not convinced it's beneficial? Do they not like changing their processes? Are they cutting corners? Obviously I don't expect you to answer for these barrel makers, but it's just an interesting question to ponder.
As an aside, another area where Shilen and Krieger disagree is with fluted barrels. Krieger is ok with it and Shilen says they refuse to do (adds stress according to them) and if you get someone else to flute their barrels the warranty is voided. How confusing! Perhaps I'll have to try a Krieger barrel when it's time to rebarrel my 40-XB.
As an aside, another area where Shilen and Krieger disagree is with fluted barrels. Krieger is ok with it and Shilen says they refuse to do (adds stress according to them) and if you get someone else to flute their barrels the warranty is voided. How confusing! Perhaps I'll have to try a Krieger barrel when it's time to rebarrel my 40-XB.
Hi Fury,
Fluting is a mechanical form of stress relieving and is definitely avoided by some button barrel makers. Cut rifling does not produce stress, and thus it is far safer to flute a cut barrel than a buttoned barrel... me? I wouldn't flute either one, but that is personal preference.
I'll certainly help you with your Krieger if you ever want to try one!
Fluting is a mechanical form of stress relieving and is definitely avoided by some button barrel makers. Cut rifling does not produce stress, and thus it is far safer to flute a cut barrel than a buttoned barrel... me? I wouldn't flute either one, but that is personal preference.
I'll certainly help you with your Krieger if you ever want to try one!
