So very subjective ! I find what one person loves, another person hates or would not even consider. If you can, test fire as many different types that you can, to get the feel you are looking for. All my 9's are different, but I love them all. And for a 22 cal, the advice is the same, many great guns, many different thought s. Good Luck !
What's a good first pistol
- Thread starter Madmardigan
- Start date
just think. for .22 30$ for 500 rounds.
9mm 15$ for 50 rounds if your lucky
.45 23$ for 50 rounds if your lucky.
If you go shooting once a week and restrain yourself with the 9MM or .45 your burning 100 rounds at least.
and 100 rounds goes pretty damn quick.
can you afford to throw 200$ a month away (and that's on the low end)?
9mm 15$ for 50 rounds if your lucky
.45 23$ for 50 rounds if your lucky.
If you go shooting once a week and restrain yourself with the 9MM or .45 your burning 100 rounds at least.
and 100 rounds goes pretty damn quick.
can you afford to throw 200$ a month away (and that's on the low end)?
The only way I can do 100 rounds of pistol is to bring a .22 rifle with me and shoot a couple hundred through that. Otherwise I'm just not satisfied, haha!
Cocked&Locked
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S. Ontario
I base my comments on shooting handguns for over 25 years, and teaching IDPA shooters for 10. I see new shooters come to the sport who have been so brainwashed that anything smaller then a 40 is a "girl gun" but they can't shoot the one they have in less the 9" patterns, then blame it on the gun.
Yes, the bigger guns amplify the flaws but they also make it harder to see them in the first place. I am an excellent shot. On a good day I can hold 2" or a bit less at 25 yards with either my left or right hand in slow fire. I can usually do the same right handed double action with a revolver. (can't do it left handed yet) Inside 20 i expect rapid fire strings to group inside 4". There are faster shooters, and more accurate ones, but i haven't met any in a bit. So my opinions are based on my teaching experience, abilities, and two decades of trying to get better. Yes, you can focus on the basics and get better over time, but you will do it in less then a quarter of the time with a 22. If you HAVE to have a center fire, a 38 with super light target loads is an ok second option. I suppose you could do the same with a 9 or 45 if you drop in lighter springs....but all at much more cost, and no improvement to the learning experience.
It sounds like you are a shooter who's actively working to get better! And i salute you for that. To many seem to come to the range just to make noise. And if they're having fun and being safe, have at it. It's a free country. But there is a reason you will always here "make the first gun a 22". If you use it as a learning tool you will progress much faster.
I've lost count of the number of times that I've been teaching a shooter, and had them frustrated with random shots. You tell em their flinching and the good ones listen, but even then they struggle to stop, because they can't see what their doing. Some times slipping a snap cap into the magazine mixed with live rounds it enough to show them, but they i put them behind a 22 for a few magazines and the lights come on....OH! that's what i'm doing...I can see it now. No guess work. I have a brand new shooter who's groups went from 7-8" to less the 3" at 7 m in 30 minutes, after he'd been trying by himself for more then 2 hours...because all of a sudden he could see what was happening.
An I will disagree. It ISN'T about recoil. I shoot a 22 the same way i shoot a 44 mag. Yes you will see more of the error with the mag...but you will still see the error. and for about 4 cents a shot, as opposed to 2 bucks. And with less cost you can shoot more, and with less recoil/blast, you can do it without getting tired and making mistakes. Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
No, the calibers are not exclusive. And yes, a bigger gun is fun...hell, my handgun stable is running about 80 or so units at present...i value diversity
But you will never go wrong with a quality 22, and they can be had so cheap (350 give or take a bit for a buck mark) it's false economy not to have one. Shoot on, have fun. Great discussion btw, thanks for taking the time to reply.
An I will disagree. It ISN'T about recoil. I shoot a 22 the same way i shoot a 44 mag. Yes you will see more of the error with the mag...but you will still see the error. and for about 4 cents a shot, as opposed to 2 bucks. And with less cost you can shoot more, and with less recoil/blast, you can do it without getting tired and making mistakes. Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect. No, the calibers are not exclusive. And yes, a bigger gun is fun...hell, my handgun stable is running about 80 or so units at present...i value diversity
Agreed wholeheartedly.
I agree you are right. the .22 is more for the general public. but I just don't think it's a MUST for everyone. there are always multiple paths to get to the same destination and not necessarily one is better than other when it comes to certain individual.
I base my comments on shooting handguns for over 25 years, and teaching IDPA shooters for 10. I see new shooters come to the sport who have been so brainwashed that anything smaller then a 40 is a "girl gun" but they can't shoot the one they have in less the 9" patterns, then blame it on the gun.
Yes, the bigger guns amplify the flaws but they also make it harder to see them in the first place. I am an excellent shot. On a good day I can hold 2" or a bit less at 25 yards with either my left or right hand in slow fire. I can usually do the same right handed double action with a revolver. (can't do it left handed yet) Inside 20 i expect rapid fire strings to group inside 4". There are faster shooters, and more accurate ones, but i haven't met any in a bit. So my opinions are based on my teaching experience, abilities, and two decades of trying to get better. Yes, you can focus on the basics and get better over time, but you will do it in less then a quarter of the time with a 22. If you HAVE to have a center fire, a 38 with super light target loads is an ok second option. I suppose you could do the same with a 9 or 45 if you drop in lighter springs....but all at much more cost, and no improvement to the learning experience.
It sounds like you are a shooter who's actively working to get better! And i salute you for that. To many seem to come to the range just to make noise. And if they're having fun and being safe, have at it. It's a free country. But there is a reason you will always here "make the first gun a 22". If you use it as a learning tool you will progress much faster.
I've lost count of the number of times that I've been teaching a shooter, and had them frustrated with random shots. You tell em their flinching and the good ones listen, but even then they struggle to stop, because they can't see what their doing. Some times slipping a snap cap into the magazine mixed with live rounds it enough to show them, but they i put them behind a 22 for a few magazines and the lights come on....OH! that's what i'm doing...I can see it now. No guess work. I have a brand new shooter who's groups went from 7-8" to less the 3" at 7 m in 30 minutes, after he'd been trying by himself for more then 2 hours...because all of a sudden he could see what was happening.
An I will disagree. It ISN'T about recoil. I shoot a 22 the same way i shoot a 44 mag. Yes you will see more of the error with the mag...but you will still see the error. and for about 4 cents a shot, as opposed to 2 bucks. And with less cost you can shoot more, and with less recoil/blast, you can do it without getting tired and making mistakes. Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
No, the calibers are not exclusive. And yes, a bigger gun is fun...hell, my handgun stable is running about 80 or so units at present...i value diversity
Shoot on, have fun. Great discussion btw, thanks for taking the time to reply.
I went to the gun store today to fondle a few pistols. I know, I know, no point until I my RPAL shows up. And I'm just making the wait harder on myself.
I tried a
G17
H&K USP
CZ shadow
Sig 226
I definetly liked the Sig the best. Beautiful pistol, and it felt right in my hands. I also liked the G17 and CZ a lot too, they both felt good.
I was suprised at how much I disliked the H&K. Definetly not made for my hands. I'm sure that the mag release is great for someone with longer thumbs. I had hard time activating it. I'll try out a few more H&K's before I cross them off my list. I know its a quality piece. Just not sure yet if I'll be able to shoot it well.
By far I like the Sig the most.
I'll get the 9mm first, just because its the more expensive piece and I'd like to get that out I the way. But I'll get a .22 soon after.
We'll see. If I can save enough money by the time my restricted comes in I'll buy both.
I tried a
G17
H&K USP
CZ shadow
Sig 226
I definetly liked the Sig the best. Beautiful pistol, and it felt right in my hands. I also liked the G17 and CZ a lot too, they both felt good.
I was suprised at how much I disliked the H&K. Definetly not made for my hands. I'm sure that the mag release is great for someone with longer thumbs. I had hard time activating it. I'll try out a few more H&K's before I cross them off my list. I know its a quality piece. Just not sure yet if I'll be able to shoot it well.
By far I like the Sig the most.
I'll get the 9mm first, just because its the more expensive piece and I'd like to get that out I the way. But I'll get a .22 soon after.
We'll see. If I can save enough money by the time my restricted comes in I'll buy both.
Great choice. don't forget the x-change kit for the .40.
for H&K, try the P30L(s) in .40S&W. from all the reviews I read, the great recoil system makes it shoot like 9mm. since it's one of the major brand, if you like shooting in general, I would say nothing practice can't fix.
and for 9mm, there is also PPQ M2 5".
for H&K, try the P30L(s) in .40S&W. from all the reviews I read, the great recoil system makes it shoot like 9mm. since it's one of the major brand, if you like shooting in general, I would say nothing practice can't fix.
and for 9mm, there is also PPQ M2 5".
28gaugefan
Member
- Location
- New Brunswick
My plan is to start with a 9mm because wanting a new gun is like a fever until you cure it. And I know if I give in to logic and get a .22 first I won't be satisfied. So a SAM 1911 9mm first then a .22 GSG or maybe a Colt 1911 .22.
The most economical route is to buy the Sig P226 Classic and then buy a 9mm conversion kit for it. The Classic is about $600.00 and the kit is around $400.00, with taxes and shipping you are into the gun for less than $1200.00. You can also get the .357 and .40cal kits for the Classic, but I don't think you can get them if you start with the 9mm frame. Not totally sure on this though.
http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/p226-classic-22.aspx
Cocked&Locked
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S. Ontario
Do the Sig set up that KDX is suggesting. Excellent quality 9, and one of the two best conversion kits going. The other would be the CZ 75 cadet kit with a 9mm gun, but it's more money and harder to find. Stay with the 9mm. The cost increase is significant if you go to 40 and will really cut into the amount of shooting you can do.
Just to put things into perspective, on the cost between 9mm and .40S&W, if to shoot reload, it's like $0.30 vs $0.35(before tax and shipping). the flip side is that with the 5 cents difference(and not as many people like .40S&W(call it short and weak. ), .40S&W is generally easier to find than 9mm(in the same Price range). So, the question is if you can't find it and with nothing to shoot, is worse than at least you have something. that was one of the factors in my decisión to start with .40S&W, besides the easy conversión down to 9mm, not the other way around with many popular guns, namely Glock and S&W.
Sig is an exception because the frame is the same and their kit swaps out the slide as well which makes a great first pistol choice as long as your Budget allows. otherwise, the 9mm conversión barrel for G22 and MP40 is $200 plus tax and shipping.
), .40S&W is generally easier to find than 9mm(in the same Price range). So, the question is if you can't find it and with nothing to shoot, is worse than at least you have something. that was one of the factors in my decisión to start with .40S&W, besides the easy conversión down to 9mm, not the other way around with many popular guns, namely Glock and S&W.Sig is an exception because the frame is the same and their kit swaps out the slide as well which makes a great first pistol choice as long as your Budget allows. otherwise, the 9mm conversión barrel for G22 and MP40 is $200 plus tax and shipping.
Last edited:
Cocked&Locked
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S. Ontario
Just to put things into perspective, on the cost between 9mm and .40S&W, if to shoot reload, it's like $0.30 vs $0.35(before tax and shipping). the flip side is that with the 5 cents difference(and not as many people like .40S&W(call it short and weak.
Sig is an exception because the frame is the same and their kit swaps out the slide as well which makes a great first pistol choice as long as your Budget allows. otherwise, the 9mm conversión barrel for G22 and MP40 is $200 plus tax and shipping.
except i doubt a beginning shooter is reloading, and the price difference in factory will run 7-9 dollars per 50. (currently, 9mm 15-17$ per 50, and 40 23-27$ per 50) And 9 is always easier to find then 40...though both are pretty much ubiquitous. But working behind the counter in a gun store for 6 months thru the worst of the ammo shortage, we would run out of 40, but there was always 9 if you where willing to shoot a different grain weight.
You give a lot of sketchy recommendations based on very little real world experience don't you?
- Location
- Manitoulin Island
^
Good advice in my opinion. No dis-respect to those who suggest going direct to 9mm, but for less money, no reloading, and no recoil issues to consider along with the other BIG 7 things to master to shoot well you will get a feeling of satisfaction sooner. Then, try the bigger stuff and remember you still have to master the other things while adjusting to recoil.
Wise advice.
I'm still kicking myself for trading away my Buckmark. When I get employed again, I will definitely be buying another one.
no need to go hostile and insulting. I gave out my recommendation based on real world, practical experience. Nothing sketchy at all. On the other hand, what you just said "buy factory" will cost people more money.
When I said "shoot reload", I meant "buy reloaded ammo". not only as a common sense, 9mm is NOT worth reloading, but also when considering the labor cost(which many don't care/count), to me personally, it's not even worth reloading 40 and 45 unless I have the full auto loading with a few hundred to 1000-round/hour productivity. Right now I am buying very good reloaded ammo from a few different sites(they are the sponsors here). 40 and 45 are easier for me, 9mm is tougher but can be found(I am an extreme cheapstake who is looking for the cheapest). While factory ammo is generally good(not 100% though, remember the winchester batch issue popped up a while ago?), it's just too expensive. I haven't had any issue with the reload I bought, so I highly recommended it. Besides, in my club, all the club guns are using reload without any issue. So, I don't understand why while you encourage people to shoot more, you only tell them to buy factory ammo which is wasting money and eventually practice less.
Other than this, anything else "sketchy" in my post regarding the change kit or conversion barrel? Being in something much longer than others, it doesn't mean you would always be right and know more than others. I know that through my career in IT where things change every minute, sometimes new guys will know more than a seasoned IT manager. so I always tell myself to focus on the facts, rather than just looking at the mileage. I will leave it just like that.
When I said "shoot reload", I meant "buy reloaded ammo". not only as a common sense, 9mm is NOT worth reloading, but also when considering the labor cost(which many don't care/count), to me personally, it's not even worth reloading 40 and 45 unless I have the full auto loading with a few hundred to 1000-round/hour productivity. Right now I am buying very good reloaded ammo from a few different sites(they are the sponsors here). 40 and 45 are easier for me, 9mm is tougher but can be found(I am an extreme cheapstake who is looking for the cheapest). While factory ammo is generally good(not 100% though, remember the winchester batch issue popped up a while ago?), it's just too expensive. I haven't had any issue with the reload I bought, so I highly recommended it. Besides, in my club, all the club guns are using reload without any issue. So, I don't understand why while you encourage people to shoot more, you only tell them to buy factory ammo which is wasting money and eventually practice less.
Other than this, anything else "sketchy" in my post regarding the change kit or conversion barrel? Being in something much longer than others, it doesn't mean you would always be right and know more than others. I know that through my career in IT where things change every minute, sometimes new guys will know more than a seasoned IT manager. so I always tell myself to focus on the facts, rather than just looking at the mileage. I will leave it just like that.
Last edited:
