Whats a norinco lower worth?
- Thread starter TheManInBlack
- Start date
wherermykeys
Regular
- Location
- Whitby, ON
Nah man, no nerve pinched...it just gets tiring reading the same #### posted over and over with no backup just because it's not "Made in the USA". It's 2010 man...everything is made in China...
And this wasn't really an attack on you...I was just venting a bit.
"Since you can get a complete Bushmaster lower with A2 stock for around $350 and a stripped lower for as low as $150, I'd put a complete Nork lower approx $200"
Right on!!! Gotta love our Capitalist system, where market forces, and open competition will eventually determine what a fair and realistic price will be.
I bought a complete Norc M4gry lower off of the CGN EE for $ 225 including shipping. Not that it was really necessary, but I replaced almost all of the NORC innards with quality bits from a decent LPK, [ which cost about $ 140 ] and did a better trigger job.
I then eventually sold that Norc lower receiver for $ 350 including shipping.
The CGN EE did a great job of determining fair market value .... the posting for both sales did NOT last more than a few hours, so we know the prices were right. If you see something posted for weeks, with several BTTs, then maybe the seller is asking too much ...
or maybe not???
I bought the NORC lower because I wanted a spare M4 type lower, to go with my 10.5" LMT upper, which was to be mostly dedicated to .22 LR, to save me swapping my CMMG .22 LR conversion kit in and out of the upper.
For $200, a complkete NORC M4gry lower receiver is of decent quality and a GREAT value.
HOWEVER,
be aware that the change lever shaft and the change lever hole in the NORC M4 lowers is about .020" larger in diameter, so you can't just swap in ALL the parts from a US GI spec lower parts kit. Everything else will pretty well drop in to the Norc M4gry lowers. If you get a stripped NORC lower, ask for the NORC change lever as well ...
or you are sorta screwed!!!!!!!!!!
BUT,
be aware also that the older Norc 311 receivers are tapped METRIC for the buffer tube and pistol grip bolt. So, unless you want to RETAP THE RECEIVER, OR USE AN ADAPTER, make sure you get the NORC METRIC buffer tube as well
PS: In the past, I've built a few decent AR 15s using the old stripped NORC 311 receivers.
AND,
while I was satisfied with my upgraded NORC M4 lower, I sold my spare Norc lower because I decided to stick with only ONE AR 15 lower. Whatever upper I had on, having the exact same trigger pull, stock, pistol grip, etc on all my ARs, seemed worth the extra hassle of swapping uppers and upper parts around.
of course,
YPMMV
LAZ 1
Right on!!! Gotta love our Capitalist system, where market forces, and open competition will eventually determine what a fair and realistic price will be.
I bought a complete Norc M4gry lower off of the CGN EE for $ 225 including shipping. Not that it was really necessary, but I replaced almost all of the NORC innards with quality bits from a decent LPK, [ which cost about $ 140 ] and did a better trigger job.
I then eventually sold that Norc lower receiver for $ 350 including shipping.
The CGN EE did a great job of determining fair market value .... the posting for both sales did NOT last more than a few hours, so we know the prices were right. If you see something posted for weeks, with several BTTs, then maybe the seller is asking too much ...
or maybe not???
I bought the NORC lower because I wanted a spare M4 type lower, to go with my 10.5" LMT upper, which was to be mostly dedicated to .22 LR, to save me swapping my CMMG .22 LR conversion kit in and out of the upper.
For $200, a complkete NORC M4gry lower receiver is of decent quality and a GREAT value.
HOWEVER,
be aware that the change lever shaft and the change lever hole in the NORC M4 lowers is about .020" larger in diameter, so you can't just swap in ALL the parts from a US GI spec lower parts kit. Everything else will pretty well drop in to the Norc M4gry lowers. If you get a stripped NORC lower, ask for the NORC change lever as well ...
or you are sorta screwed!!!!!!!!!!
BUT,
be aware also that the older Norc 311 receivers are tapped METRIC for the buffer tube and pistol grip bolt. So, unless you want to RETAP THE RECEIVER, OR USE AN ADAPTER, make sure you get the NORC METRIC buffer tube as well
PS: In the past, I've built a few decent AR 15s using the old stripped NORC 311 receivers.
AND,
while I was satisfied with my upgraded NORC M4 lower, I sold my spare Norc lower because I decided to stick with only ONE AR 15 lower. Whatever upper I had on, having the exact same trigger pull, stock, pistol grip, etc on all my ARs, seemed worth the extra hassle of swapping uppers and upper parts around.
of course,
YPMMV
LAZ 1
pessos?
ok i have to ask the lowers are aluminum right? how are they made? is there really a big difference in appearence? if i take off all the paint and names put them side by side would someone say oh thats the good one right there? someone have a quick education on this for me.
We would be able to compete with Norinco if we were able to waive min wage, ignore ISO, AS9100 and other manufacturing standards and hire children to work 15 hours a day, but im pretty sure those defending norinco would have a problem with similar work conditions here in Canada........... whats the saying....." not in my back yard".
Charles,
with regards to your Chinese/Norinco bashing post above,
which really has nothing at all to do with the inherent quality of Norinco fire arms,
I think I'll post a slightly different perspective on the issue of
what is happening in "our Back Yard".
When I was 14 years old, I worked all summer, 16 hrs a day as a laborer, unloading hardwood flooring from box cars into a truck, then unloading the truck into high school gymnasiums. After high school I worked another couple of years as a bricklayer's helper, hauling bricks and blocks and stone, and mixing mud.
BRUTAL hard work, for low pay ....
but at least I didn't need a Gym membership to keep in shape.
When I was 17,
I got a REAL job, working 8 hrs a day as a Union Laborer at a potash mine, but paid for 12 hrs, because I drove 2 hrs to the job site. They paid me the godly sum of $ 1.76 an hour, Union rate wages, and added an extra .05 cents an hour because they had me working an 80 lb jack hammer all day.
When I was 40, with decades of experience as a well paid Carpenter, mostly in heavy construction, I took a long hard look at my "career", and what was left of my battered, beat up body, and decided to go back to school and be come a Computer Geek. Use my brains instead of my brawn.
So there I was,
at 40,
in a two and a half year long IT course, along with 140 other students, all of them younger than me, most of them smarter than me, but as a generalisation, mostly pampered, privileged young yuppie spawn, who drank and partied like there was no tomorrow. Studying? Exams? Homework? NAHHhhhhh ... that stuff just got in the way of partying.
As well, at the start of the class, there were three young Chinese students, two of which did not even speak English. Flash forward to the graduating class two and half years later. SEVENTEEN people stood on the stage to get their diplomas. 17 people finished the course that 140 had started. And guess what? MOST OF THE BRIGHT YOUNG CANADIAN RAISED YUPPY SPAWN HAD FALLEN BY THE WAYSIDE. But,interestingly, all three of the Chinese students had graduated, and by then they spoke very good English.
IMHO,
The new generation of Canadians has dropped the ball. They simply don't have the work ethics of their parents, and of most of the immigrants. I've seen it in the trades, where finding a young Canadian born apprentice who is willing to WORK, and WORK HARD, is a rarity. Which is why we are seeing more and more Mexicans, and other immigrants and migrants in the trades.
Every year, here on Fantasy Island, we have the Daffodil harvest, for a couple of frantic weeks. And every year, they can't get enough local workers to do the back breaking hard work. But if you go into downtown Victoria, you'll see dozens, perhaps hundreds of able bodied young men pan handling for spare change ....
too proud to work, but not to proud to pan handle??
Talk to these kids, and as a generalisation, they all feel that the world OWES THEM A LIVING. But you don't see many Chinese kids out there on the streets pan handling???
Maybe because they are off somewhere, working?
NOPE,
North Americans of the coming generation have mostly dropped the ball, and the harder working foreigners are more than willing to pick that ball up. Don't blame the Chinese, or the Mexicans, or whoever, because they are willing to work harder for less than our own kids.
NOPE ....
if you have any kids, or grand kids, I suggest the best thing you can do for them is to get them started on learning Mandarin, because that is how they will be communicating with their new bosses in the coming decades.
And getting back to firearms,
it is a sad state of affairs when grade 8 shop students in China can build a better M14, at a fraction of the price, than Springfield Armory's best efforts on their M1A.
And while the Americans are winding down their space shots, the Chinese are talking about putting a man on the moon.
Sad, but true. We are living in the decline and fall of the North American empire. And this decline is NOT the fault of the foreigners, who are willing to work harder for less. It is our own dammed fault. We got soft and complacent, and when that happens, there is always some one else out there, willing to take our place.
of course,
FREE opinions expressed on the Internet may be worth less than you paid for them,
and
YPMMV
LAZ 1
[;{)
with regards to your Chinese/Norinco bashing post above,
which really has nothing at all to do with the inherent quality of Norinco fire arms,
I think I'll post a slightly different perspective on the issue of
what is happening in "our Back Yard".
When I was 14 years old, I worked all summer, 16 hrs a day as a laborer, unloading hardwood flooring from box cars into a truck, then unloading the truck into high school gymnasiums. After high school I worked another couple of years as a bricklayer's helper, hauling bricks and blocks and stone, and mixing mud.
BRUTAL hard work, for low pay ....
but at least I didn't need a Gym membership to keep in shape.
When I was 17,
I got a REAL job, working 8 hrs a day as a Union Laborer at a potash mine, but paid for 12 hrs, because I drove 2 hrs to the job site. They paid me the godly sum of $ 1.76 an hour, Union rate wages, and added an extra .05 cents an hour because they had me working an 80 lb jack hammer all day.
When I was 40, with decades of experience as a well paid Carpenter, mostly in heavy construction, I took a long hard look at my "career", and what was left of my battered, beat up body, and decided to go back to school and be come a Computer Geek. Use my brains instead of my brawn.
So there I was,
at 40,
in a two and a half year long IT course, along with 140 other students, all of them younger than me, most of them smarter than me, but as a generalisation, mostly pampered, privileged young yuppie spawn, who drank and partied like there was no tomorrow. Studying? Exams? Homework? NAHHhhhhh ... that stuff just got in the way of partying.
As well, at the start of the class, there were three young Chinese students, two of which did not even speak English. Flash forward to the graduating class two and half years later. SEVENTEEN people stood on the stage to get their diplomas. 17 people finished the course that 140 had started. And guess what? MOST OF THE BRIGHT YOUNG CANADIAN RAISED YUPPY SPAWN HAD FALLEN BY THE WAYSIDE. But,interestingly, all three of the Chinese students had graduated, and by then they spoke very good English.
IMHO,
The new generation of Canadians has dropped the ball. They simply don't have the work ethics of their parents, and of most of the immigrants. I've seen it in the trades, where finding a young Canadian born apprentice who is willing to WORK, and WORK HARD, is a rarity. Which is why we are seeing more and more Mexicans, and other immigrants and migrants in the trades.
Every year, here on Fantasy Island, we have the Daffodil harvest, for a couple of frantic weeks. And every year, they can't get enough local workers to do the back breaking hard work. But if you go into downtown Victoria, you'll see dozens, perhaps hundreds of able bodied young men pan handling for spare change ....
too proud to work, but not to proud to pan handle??
Talk to these kids, and as a generalisation, they all feel that the world OWES THEM A LIVING. But you don't see many Chinese kids out there on the streets pan handling???
Maybe because they are off somewhere, working?
NOPE,
North Americans of the coming generation have mostly dropped the ball, and the harder working foreigners are more than willing to pick that ball up. Don't blame the Chinese, or the Mexicans, or whoever, because they are willing to work harder for less than our own kids.
NOPE ....
if you have any kids, or grand kids, I suggest the best thing you can do for them is to get them started on learning Mandarin, because that is how they will be communicating with their new bosses in the coming decades.
And getting back to firearms,
it is a sad state of affairs when grade 8 shop students in China can build a better M14, at a fraction of the price, than Springfield Armory's best efforts on their M1A.
And while the Americans are winding down their space shots, the Chinese are talking about putting a man on the moon.
Sad, but true. We are living in the decline and fall of the North American empire. And this decline is NOT the fault of the foreigners, who are willing to work harder for less. It is our own dammed fault. We got soft and complacent, and when that happens, there is always some one else out there, willing to take our place.
of course,
FREE opinions expressed on the Internet may be worth less than you paid for them,
and
YPMMV
LAZ 1
[;{)
The only thing I would add to your post Sir, is the state of Unionized workers. People who make ungodly amounts of money to do a very minimal amount of work, and they expect more for less work every year. It has been bread into our population that you can always get something for nothing and that only the "best" products can come from NA. Anything from anywhere else must be inferior. Especially if it has a lower price tag.
I understand the plight of the Chinese worker. If you look approx 100 years into our past, you'll find that we went through the same growing pains. It won't take the Chinese long to completely own NA. It also won't take them long to improve working conditions and worker treatment. When that happens there will be nothing left to stop the economic take over. NA will be far too fat and is already far too lazy.
wherermykeys
Regular
- Location
- Whitby, ON
Really??? You need to wake up...have you actually been to China?
A few years ago, I visited 6 different motorcycle factories in various Chinese cities and every single one had working conditions easily on par with anything "in our backyard", were ISO certified and not a child in sight. Their workers were hardworking villagers who had travelled to the cities in search of better jobs...many of the factories had accomodations on site so they were able to bring most of their wages home to their families on weekends. Actually, on the subject of weekends, our translator was telling us that when given the option to go home for the weekend, many just opted to stay to put in extra overtime.
Do you really think these guns are made by some 9 year old who's been forced to work for 50 cents an hour??
BTW, well said Lazerus.
I was part of a purchasing team the migrated the manufacture of a complete landing gear system to China. I think i may have a little bit of knowledge on the subject.
I actually enjoyed reading the head lines this summer out of china regarding plant shut downs and stikes, i hope wages sky rocket there.
I actually enjoyed reading the head lines this summer out of china regarding plant shut downs and stikes, i hope wages sky rocket there.
That is the govts fault via the courts.
wherermykeys
Regular
- Location
- Whitby, ON
So they can make landing gear but not guns???
I never said they actually delivered one that flew anywhere. They did help keep inspection busy though, the quarantine cage grew considerably as well.
For all guys who love china so much and think that their business model is so great, how come none of you are willing to run our cnc machines making NEA product for $10 an hour?
wherermykeys
Regular
- Location
- Whitby, ON
That's a ridiculous question. We already have good jobs or else we wouldn't be in this hobby. The question is, why can't you find willing workers with the ability/desire to operate a CNC machine for $10 an hour in Canada? Probably because they could just claim unemployment, collect their govt cheque and be better off!
wherermykeys
Regular
- Location
- Whitby, ON
OK, I think we've gone a little off topic here.
Let us agree to disagree. Sorry for turning this into a Norinco vs North America thread!
Let us agree to disagree. Sorry for turning this into a Norinco vs North America thread!
The unions that strike are the fault of the membership, not the courts or the government.
