What's better then a red dot and 3x magnifier

slushee

slushee

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So I'm excitedly awaiting my 11" Bren 2, and I've only ever used iron sights on my 16" AR-15.

I was thinking about getting a red dot and a 3x magnifier by Sig.

The longer I wait, the more and more I remember an article or YouTube video (hard to recall) about how gun sights have changed and a red dot and magnifier is outdated, that there is a better optic that uses an etched reticle and has 1-3 power.

At the time I didn't think much of it, but my low tech wet ware seems to go back to that article, and I decided to ask you, the experts :)

I plan on setting up my Bren 2 as an SBR as much as it can be but the idea of reaching out 300-400 meters is enticing.

Can't wait to hear what you all have to suggest before I lay down my cash.
 
They're called LPVOs (Low Power Variable Optics). They generally range from 1-4 to 1-10 (There might be some 1-12, but they'll be expensive). They're awesome for competition shooting where you might have to transition from short to long range targets, especially if they come with or you add on a throw lever to the magnification adjustment ring.

Bushnell, Vortex, Burris, Sig, Primary Arms, Leupold, Eotech, etc make them. The Vortex Strike Eagles are pretty popular for a not too expensive but still pretty decent option. They come in 1-6 and 1-8.
 
Magnifiers can have issues with alignment withe the red dot. A LPVO like the Strike Eagle can be cumbersome when used with night vision. Each have many perks and trade offs. Check out a great LPVO here:


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I’ll agree with Scotty. I used to run red dots on a couple of my rifles, but found that the pros didn’t outweigh the cons. A 6 MOA red dot was to large for even gopher accuracy, and the 2 MOA red dot was hard to find and often washed out in bright sunlight. (Also discovered that I have an astigmatism, which didn’t help). Most LPVO’s have some sort of illumination/reticle that will work for CQB, but also give the accuracy of a fixed reticle, and allow magnification for longer shots. The only real downside is that they generally weigh more than a red dot.

The other thing to remember running a red dot/magnifier combo is that the magnifier will also magnify your red dot. So in theory, your 2 MOA red dot becomes a 6 MOA red dot for the longer shots where you need MORE accuracy. We won’t even talk about a 6 MOA red dot and magnifier.
 
KePet said:
I’ll agree with Scotty. I used to run red dots on a couple of my rifles, but found that the pros didn’t outweigh the cons. A 6 MOA red dot was to large for even gopher accuracy, and the 2 MOA red dot was hard to find and often washed out in bright sunlight. (Also discovered that I have an astigmatism, which didn’t help). Most LPVO’s have some sort of illumination/reticle that will work for CQB, but also give the accuracy of a fixed reticle, and allow magnification for longer shots. The only real downside is that they generally weigh more than a red dot.

The other thing to remember running a red dot/magnifier combo is that the magnifier will also magnify your red dot. So in theory, your 2 MOA red dot becomes a 6 MOA red dot for the longer shots where you need MORE accuracy. We won’t even talk about a 6 MOA red dot and magnifier.
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Just shoot when you can't see the target anymore, lol.
 
LPVO all day long unless the rifle will only be used for CQB type use.

Lots of options out there, I run a 1-8X but rarely use 8X except for sighting in. Did a match last week still only used 3-4X for the shots at 100 - 150 as that was sufficient and the targets are much easier to find initially due to the larger field of view. Some really good 1-6X options out there too.

One of the biggest things I consider with all optics is the reticle, I prefer some type of larger halo type design with a small fine dot in the centre. I find that the large halo gets me in the right area fast when doing close stuff and the fine dot is the ticket for good accuracy on longer shots. This becomes even more of a consideration if going FFP IMO. Eyebox is important too.
 
Since it's going on an 11" I would go with exactly what you were thinking: red dot and magnifier. LPVO's will just add bulk and weight to an 11" which should be kept streamlined. You wouldn't really need over 4x magnification for a 5.56 that short either, it's ballistics will start to suffer quickly once you go beyond 300m. Do you have a place to shoot a restricted at 3-400m?
For an 18.5" or 20" I would take an lpvo any day.
 
KePet said:
The other thing to remember running a red dot/magnifier combo is that the magnifier will also magnify your red dot. So in theory, your 2 MOA red dot becomes a 6 MOA red dot for the longer shots where you need MORE accuracy. We won’t even talk about a 6 MOA red dot and magnifier.
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The magnifier will magnify everything, your 2 MOA dot is still a 2 MOA dot, the target also get magnified the same amount, so the dot will still cover the same relative area as the dot will unmagnified.
 
Primary Arms SLX 1x (with or without their 3x magnifier) or 3x microprism? If you're interested in a small, lightweight optic with etched reticle, these seem like a good bet.
 
Vortex 3x micro prism. If you use a 3x magnifier with a red dot it will also magnify the 2 moa dot to a 6 moa dot, however I believe if you use a 3x magnifier with a holographic sight (i.e Eotech) it does not magnify the dot. If you decide on LPVO sight be aware it will weigh a lot more. i.e. 5-7 ozs for the scope rings and 13-18 ozs or more for the scope, depending upon the scope. The Vortex 3x micro prism with mount weighs 9.7 ozs. Also a red dot will not work for you if your have an eye astigmatism i.e. you will not see a dot, more like a star burst.
 
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Fyn said:
The magnifier will magnify everything, your 2 MOA dot is still a 2 MOA dot, the target also get magnified the same amount, so the dot will still cover the same relative area as the dot will unmagnified.
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Never really looked at it that way Fyn, but you are right. Obviously I never did any accuracy shooting with the setup. I just found the dot appeared inordinately large to me. I just plain wasn’t comfortable with the setup - not like I am with an etched reticle in an LPVO. And, as I mentioned, I found out that I have an astigmatism, which no doubt contributed to my lack of comfort with a red dot and magnifier.
 
KePet said:
Never really looked at it that way Fyn, but you are right. Obviously I never did any accuracy shooting with the setup. I just found the dot appeared inordinately large to me. I just plain wasn’t comfortable with the setup - not like I am with an etched reticle in an LPVO. And, as I mentioned, I found out that I have an astigmatism, which no doubt contributed to my lack of comfort with a red dot and magnifier.
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For sure, some sights will work better with a magnifier than others as well. As mentioned in one of the last posts, holo sights like the Eotechs work really well magnified. I have a bit of astigmatism, some red dots are absolutely terrible for me, where others are pretty decent. Currently running an Eotech which works well enough for my eyes, and with G33 it's perfect and sharp. Prisms and LPVO's are definitely the easier route with astigmatism though.

One nice thing with a red dot and magnifier is you're not married to magnifier, you can take it off when you want less bulk and weight, pop it on when you want some range.
 
geologist said:
I prefer to run an illuminated LPVO in the lowest QD rings that work. That way you can take it off without tools and use the irons.
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^^^This is the correct option. I'll add that I also use a laser for CQ that is separate and independent of the LPVO or anything else.
 
what is your use case? CQB rifle? use fixed x4/rmr or RDS/magnifier. I see zero usage of the LPVO unless you are running a DMR. You won't be getting true 1X unless you pay big money for good LPVO.
 
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