What's the bloody point of progressive presses?

[Meroh]

I agree the Lee is workable. I just wouldn't recommend it to someone who wants to just pull the lever. You have to keep a close eye on things, and some of the setup requires a bit of tinkering. It might just be the powder I use, but I can't crank the powder dump screws tight, or else the metering plate sticks.

You are right, as I posted before you do need a mechanical or engineering mind-set to set them up and operate them. Interestingly, I find that these presses can be read, and they do give some indications of an impending issue before they happen; either by feel or visual observation. I don't need to build a billion bullets/hour. I reload for the joy and relaxation of it... Which is why, since I recently got one, after almost 50 years of reloading, I will not ever use anything other than a single stage for Rifle.

I'll let the wild-men with lots of disposable income buy the big expensive presses.

Somehow, I still seem to be able to load more than I can shoot, and always have lots to share with my friends at the range as well.

Mark

 

[Freedom Ventures]

No, but if someone is not mechanically inclined or new to reloading they can be quite frustrated.

LOL!!! Every time someone says "you should be mechanically inclined to run a X Press" I laugh my ass off.

You shouldn't need to be mechanically inclined to reload. Even the cheep-ass car and motorcycle manufacturers don't require someone to be mechanically inclined to drive their vehicles. Even Princess auto doesn't ask you when you bring back a chi-com tool "Are you mechanically inclined? NO. Well, it won't work for you. No refund."

The goddanmed things should work for everyone without you heading to YouTube for a million tips & tricks or keeping 25 spare parts on hand.

FYI - I loaded over 150,000 rounds on lee progressives until I got a Dillon. I could tell you in an instant what part of those pieces of garbage were acting up with the slights movement of the lever. I had at least 15 primer pushers on hand for when they got gnarled up. F##k were my eyes opened when I finished a 2000 round reloading session on a Dillon. I sat there and thought. Wow, f@#kign with the press isn't part of reloading. You just make ammo.

I'm not saying you can't make ammo on a lee progressive. What I'm saying is if you get a decent alternative, you will wonder why you ever put up with that piece of ####.
Anyone who hasn't used both a lot is in no position to comment.

And for the record, I am very mechanically inclined and reloading is not relaxing - it's boring drudgery. I only do it as a means to an end - decent custom ammo and lots of it so I can shoot.

 

[Meroh]

LOL!!! Every time someone says "you should be mechanically inclined to run a X Press" I laugh my ass off.

You shouldn't need to be mechanically inclined to reload. Even the cheep-ass car and motorcycle manufacturers don't require someone to be mechanically inclined to drive their vehicles. Even Princess auto doesn't ask you when you bring back a chi-com tool "Are you mechanically inclined? NO. Well, it won't work for you. No refund."

The goddanmed things should work for everyone without you heading to YouTube for a million tips & tricks or keeping 25 spare parts on hand.

FYI - I loaded over 150,000 rounds on lee progressives until I got a Dillon. I could tell you in an instant what part of those pieces of garbage were acting up with the slights movement of the lever. I had at least 15 primer pushers on hand for when they got gnarled up. F##k were my eyes opened when I finished a 2000 round reloading session on a Dillon. I sat there and thought. Wow, f@#kign with the press isn't part of reloading. You just make ammo.

I'm not saying you can't make ammo on a lee progressive. What I'm saying is if you get a decent alternative, you will wonder why you ever put up with that piece of ####.
Anyone who hasn't used both a lot is in no position to comment.

And for the record, I am very mechanically inclined and reloading is not relaxing - it's boring drudgery. I only do it as a means to an end - decent custom ammo and lots of it so I can shoot.

If it is boring drudgery, you need a new hobby; when you get complacent, that is when mistakes occur.

For me it gives me a sense of pride and achievement to make better than average ammo for a reasonable cost.

 

[209jones]

Ah, the joys of a first timer on a progressive press, don't worry, everyone who ever owned one went thru some cursing and frustration of some sort on the first one they tried at one point or another with them, doesn't matter if it is rifle, pistol or shotshell.
Patience is req'd.

 

[BigRobb]

I’ve had loadmasters, Dillon 650 and a 750. I probably only shoot 2000-3000 pistol rounds a year. Not high volume.
Both loadmasters I had ran great! A few little tweaks and they were essentially flawless. Far from “junk” as an earlier sponsor has said.
Sold them both and bought a used 650 with case feeder. After spending $1500+ getting a used machine set up for two calibres, I found my speed was marginally better, but with the same hiccups for the most part. I’d say the case feeder was responsible for the slight increase in speed.
Basically underwhelmed with the 650, decided to try the 750 and hopefully see the $1500 difference over a loadmaster. Maybe I should’ve gone straight to the 1150, because I still wasn’t producing a whole lot more than I was with a $300 Lee.
In the end, I sold the 750 and paid $325 for another new loadmaster in 9mm. Another $100 to get it set up in 45acp. For a press that sits around most of the year, I just couldn’t justify the cost.
As far as being mechanically inclined, I think it helps with any press you run, including the Dillon. If you think that a press is flawless and you can just mindlessly “pull the handle”, you’re just wrong. You should be paying attention and feeling what’s happening through the handle no matter what press you’re using.
For me, they both required a little tweaking, and both had little annoyances. Primers load faster in the Lee, cases are faster in the Dillon. Everyone has different needs and means, so it’s all relative in the end. In my situation, it made no sense to have a $2k set up sitting around to load a few thousand rounds when it could easily be done with a sub $500.

 

[I Dont Care About You]

I’ve had loadmasters, Dillon 650 and a 750. I probably only shoot 2000-3000 pistol rounds a year. Not high volume.
Both loadmasters I had ran great! A few little tweaks and they were essentially flawless. Far from “junk” as an earlier sponsor has said.
Sold them both and bought a used 650 with case feeder. After spending $1500+ getting a used machine set up for two calibres, I found my speed was marginally better, but with the same hiccups for the most part. I’d say the case feeder was responsible for the slight increase in speed.
Basically underwhelmed with the 650, decided to try the 750 and hopefully see the $1500 difference over a loadmaster. Maybe I should’ve gone straight to the 1150, because I still wasn’t producing a whole lot more than I was with a $300 Lee.
In the end, I sold the 750 and paid $325 for another new loadmaster in 9mm. Another $100 to get it set up in 45acp. For a press that sits around most of the year, I just couldn’t justify the cost.

I've had a Lee turret press for 35 years. With the auto index and a disk powder charge I could load 120-150 rds in an hour but that required a bit of good mojo to avoid problems that would slow production rate down.

A few years ago I got hold of a used Dillon 550 with a bunch of different caliber change kits and two toolheads. That was great and definitely increased my production rate. After a year I added a DAA case feeder and that was a revelation. The case feeder really speeds up production rate.

As far as being mechanically inclined, I think it helps with any press you run, including the Dillon. If you think that a press is flawless and you can just mindlessly “pull the handle”, you’re just wrong. You should be paying attention and feeling what’s happening through the handle no matter what press you’re using.
For me, they both required a little tweaking, and both had little annoyances.

Yea, paying attention to the feel through the handle and adjusting pull rate and force throughout the stroke is key to letting a progressive work properly and reliably. Mindlessly running the handle is prob the primary cause of issues w a progressive. I'd liken it to the difference between driving an auto transmission and a manual. One requires more attention and subtlety than the other.

 

[enefgee]

I started with a Lee Turret in the late '80's. I loaded 38 Special - lots of 38 Special, in excess of 30,000 rounds of 38 Special. That press now converted to 4 die, loads 303 - lots of 303. You do have to pay attention and since things do wear with use, you do have to make adjustments. I also have a Pro 1000, except for the lack of stations it's quite fast once it's correctly adjusted, I've loaded about 5,000 rounds of 45 and 50,000 (you read that right, fifty thousand) rounds of 9mm. Properly adjusted, the case feed works fine (but you have to read the damn instructions) so does the primer feed. The bullet feed doesn't and I have never been willing to spend the time to make it work. I've had people try to use both presses and the most common issue is that they seem to think you can simply slam the handle up and down as fast as possible - that guarantees problems like case misfeeds, components being cast off in all directions and upside down primers. Sorry, user error does not make any piece of equipment junk.

 

[5.45]

The best way to avoid continuous bestiality with the press is to get a half decent unit in the first place.
For any Dillon press, a bulletfeeder helps a lot.
Even D550 with Mini Mr Bulletfeeder cranks out pistol ammo at a decent rate. The only thing I haven’t figured out yet is how to straighten the occasional glocked brass with it.

 

[OldDude]

I started with a Lee Turret in the late '80's. I loaded 38 Special - lots of 38 Special, in excess of 30,000 rounds of 38 Special. That press now converted to 4 die, loads 303 - lots of 303. You do have to pay attention and since things do wear with use, you do have to make adjustments. I also have a Pro 1000, except for the lack of stations it's quite fast once it's correctly adjusted, I've loaded about 5,000 rounds of 45 and 50,000 (you read that right, fifty thousand) rounds of 9mm. Properly adjusted, the case feed works fine (but you have to read the damn instructions) so does the primer feed. The bullet feed doesn't and I have never been willing to spend the time to make it work. I've had people try to use both presses and the most common issue is that they seem to think you can simply slam the handle up and down as fast as possible - that guarantees problems like case misfeeds, components being cast off in all directions and upside down primers. Sorry, user error does not make any piece of equipment junk.

My experience with the primer feed pretty much agrees with this. You have to keep the trough clean. If you start running the trough dry (empty), the few remaining primers don't weigh enough to properly feed the primer into position. Also, my trough seemed to get a bit loose (sideways). A couple of little spring clamps keep the thing squeezed together; no more problems.

One thing I've also found with cycling the handle is that a smooth motion works better. If I try to go too fast or unevenly, I ended up with spilt primers, cases not lining up with the die(s), and general chaos.

 

[Scotty454]

LOL!!! Every time someone says "you should be mechanically inclined to run a X Press" I laugh my ass off.

You shouldn't need to be mechanically inclined to reload. Even the cheep-ass car and motorcycle manufacturers don't require someone to be mechanically inclined to drive their vehicles. Even Princess auto doesn't ask you when you bring back a chi-com tool "Are you mechanically inclined? NO. Well, it won't work for you. No refund."

The goddanmed things should work for everyone without you heading to YouTube for a million tips & tricks or keeping 25 spare parts on hand.

FYI - I loaded over 150,000 rounds on lee progressives until I got a Dillon. I could tell you in an instant what part of those pieces of garbage were acting up with the slights movement of the lever. I had at least 15 primer pushers on hand for when they got gnarled up. F##k were my eyes opened when I finished a 2000 round reloading session on a Dillon. I sat there and thought. Wow, f@#kign with the press isn't part of reloading. You just make ammo.

I'm not saying you can't make ammo on a lee progressive. What I'm saying is if you get a decent alternative, you will wonder why you ever put up with that piece of ####.
Anyone who hasn't used both a lot is in no position to comment.

And for the record, I am very mechanically inclined and reloading is not relaxing - it's boring drudgery. I only do it as a means to an end - decent custom ammo and lots of it so I can shoot.

This. When people tell me they load pistol on a single stage because they enjoy it, I cringe. There are a dozen things I'd rather be doing than loading ammo.

And as far as the "get a new hobby" comment- Lol. This is NOT a hobby, this is a necessity so I can partake in my actual hobby. I am fully capable of performing a task that is repetitive that I don't necessarily enjoy, without becoming complacent and making mistakes. If people couldn't do this, a lot of people would suck at a lot of jobs.

 

[ted_dent]

The goddanmed things should work for everyone without you heading to YouTube for a million tips & tricks or keeping 25 spare parts on hand.

Sure, because Dillons NEVER break and NEVER require adjustment. That's why they can offer a no BS warranty. I guess my friends who own Dillons and tell me they had to order parts and adjust them were lying to me.

And it took you loading 150,000 rounds on Lee progressives before you determined they were "garbage"? Someone's a slow learner.

 

[Scotty454]

Sure, because Dillons NEVER break and NEVER require adjustment. That's why they can offer a no BS warranty. I guess my friends who own Dillons and tell me they had to order parts and adjust them were lying to me.

And it took you loading 150,000 rounds on Lee progressives before you determined they were "garbage"? Someone's a slow learner.

...I run a Dillon, I personally know multiple people that run Dillons, not a single one had to "order parts" or "adjust them" outside of what would be considered normal for changing calibers.

 

[diopter]

https://www.rugerforum.net/threads/problems-with-dillon-precision.392392/

 

[ted_dent]

...I run a Dillon, I personally know multiple people that run Dillons, not a single one had to "order parts" or "adjust them" outside of what would be considered normal for changing calibers.

I personally don't know a single person who has won the Lotto Max jackpot. i guess than means than no one has ever won one.

I'm guessing you were never on your high school's debate team.

 

[ted_dent]

https://www.rugerforum.net/threads/problems-with-dillon-precision.392392/

Please, don't confuse them with the facts.

 

[dan belisle]

...I run a Dillon, I personally know multiple people that run Dillons, not a single one had to "order parts" or "adjust them" outside of what would be considered normal for changing calibers.

I run a Dillon 550. I also have three Lee turret presses, a Lyman turret press, a Lyman Orange Crush O press, an RCBS O press, and a couple of shotgun presses. The dillon required a few parts to get it running right, but I bought it used and a few small bits were missing. I have no idea how many rounds have gone through the Lee's. The oldest one I finally decided to rebuild because it was getting loose, and it was nearly 40 years old. They are machines, and they wear. Dillon has been good with warranty bits in the past, as has Lee. To date none of the Lymans or the RCBS has required any, but I don't use them as extensively. I don't know if the new management at Dillon will be harder to deal with or not, but based on my experience with their equipment (both my 550, and a friend's two 550's, a 650 and a 1050) I would not hesitate to purchase one. - dan

 

[fingers284]

I was down in the loading room a couple nights ago, just starting on my second batch of 1000 .38 sp rounds through my 650 of the evening, without a single pooched primer... and got to thinking about my old Lee Loadmaster days. In todays world of primer shortages and the exorbitant cost increase of the damn things, I am so glad I Made the wsitch to Dillon long ago...dont get me wrong tho. I will be the first to admit that the Lee machines can turn out pails of good ammo just like the Dillon's can...but damn... the primer attrition of almost 10% of the Loadmaster would cost a bundle (pretty much one sleeve per 1000 box at upwards of $150 per) & cause concern if you could load enough rounds for a shooting season.

 

[ted_dent]

I was down in the loading room a couple nights ago, just starting on my second batch of 1000 .38 sp rounds through my 650 of the evening, without a single pooched primer... and got to thinking about my old Lee Loadmaster days. In todays world of primer shortages and the exorbitant cost increase of the damn things, I am so glad I Made the wsitch to Dillon long ago...dont get me wrong tho. I will be the first to admit that the Lee machines can turn out pails of good ammo just like the Dillon's can...but damn... the primer attrition of almost 10% of the Loadmaster would cost a bundle (pretty much one sleeve per 1000 box at upwards of $150 per) & cause concern if you could load enough rounds for a shooting season.

I have run my Loadmasters (two of them) for at least 25 years and even when the primer feeds are dirty (my fault for not maintaining them) or letting the primer reserve get too low I have never had primer attrition rate higher than 2-3%. I have one press set up with the small primer feed and one with the large primer feed. Typically I will go 400-500 rounds with the small primer press and get perhaps 1-2 misfeeds. The large primer press is probably up to 1000 rounds now without a single misfeed (can't remember the last time I had one).

I'm sure that if I cleaned the primer feeds faithfully every 300-400 rounds misfeeds would be pretty much non-existent. The keys to minimizing primer issues are regular cleaning and/or replacing worn parts as soon as misfeeds start happening and making sure that you don't let the primer feed run too low (I fill the primer trays as soon as the reserve is down to just the primers in the feed chute).

Maybe I just got lucky but I have never had the problems with the primer feeds that so many people complain about.

 

[mactroneng]

I have to agree with ted_dent, I have had a Loadmaster for a few years now (and got it used), if I was losing 10% of my primers I'd have tossed it long ago.

I'd say even the 2-3% figure he gives is high, I get similar levels only if I forget to top up primers when they get low.

 

[BigRobb]

I have to agree with ted_dent, I have had a Loadmaster for a few years now (and got it used), if I was losing 10% of my primers I'd have tossed it long ago.

I'd say even the 2-3% figure he gives is high, I get similar levels only if I forget to top up primers when they get low.

I’m in the same boat. I’ll maybe get a flipped or sideways primer 1 or 2 out of 1k.
The only part I’ve ever replaced was when I updated an older primer feed chute that had known design issues.
Besides that, I think I had to glue the wooden knob on a couple of times maybe?