What's the deal with cutting off bayonet lugs.

[bdft]

I've owned a number of Lee Enfield sporters with the bayonet lug cut off and a couple of Jungle Carbines and now there's a No 4 in the EE that has the end of the barrel cut off to remove the lugs. Was there a law in Canada at one time that made bayonet lugs illegal? I'm not aware of one and it seems pretty stupid but look at what's happening in California and New York. I can't see any other reason to remove a little tab of metal.

 

[trebor2880]

I do believe that at one point in time in Canadian law, the lugs were to be removed. How, when or why it was reversed, is not known by me.

 

[raindog]

I never heard of a law like this in Canada, however, I guess it would not be the silliest firearms law instituted to date.

In my father's time, these were very plentiful and cheap surplus rifles, so many used them for hunting. It was common to cut off these then useless bits to prevent them from snagging up in the bush, and cutting the stocks down also made them lighter and somewhat resemble the far more expensive sporting rifles of the day.

 

[Claven2]

Removing the lugs makes them shoot white tail more accurately. I heard it at a gunshow once.

 

[polaris]

The shorter the barrel, the faster and more accurate the bullet, because it is exposed to less friction.
I heard this form a friend of a friend of a gun shop sales person.

 

[Butcherbill]

It was likely a common thing to shorten the barrel when bubba sporterized them in the first place, you gotta remember that they were cheap back when you picked them out of a barrel. Anything you could do to lighten them up for hunting would've been done at the time, they likely weren't look at as collectibles by the majority of the people buying them.

 

[bearhunter]

I do believe that at one point in time in Canadian law, the lugs were to be removed. How, when or why it was reversed, is not known by me.

When I was in Austria in 1976 there was a fellow there that was diligently cutting off the bayo lugs on surplus firearms. It seems their laws as well as those of a few surrounding nations considered the rifles to be sporting rifles as long as a bayonet couldn't be attached.

Many of those rifles have likely made their way to North America

 

[longbranch*]

Likely done in an effort to make them look less military. I read somewhere that in post war Germany bayonet lugs were to be removed. Some other countries did also ie: Israeli .22 trainers etc.

 

[kjohn]

It's just one of the ways to turn a $600 military surplus rifle into a $125 sporter.

Couple of years ago, I was helping a dealer at the Saskatoon show, when a young fellow came along looking for a No.5, "Jungle Carbine". He had very poor eyesight and asked me for help with a rifle the dealer had. It had the bayonet lugs cut off. I took him over to another dealer who had one complete with bayonet. I explained the situation to the dealer. He gave the fellow a rocking good deal. The buyer was an ex-military who had lost most of his sight. Made the fellow's day! He was almost in tears.

 

[Imperial luger]

Quote and a good one at that

Removing the lugs makes them shoot white tail more accurately. I heard it at a gunshow once.


Ahh so that is why I cannot hit a muley here in BC with my Jungle carbine..LOL

 

[Andy]

Once your SIN number has been etched into the receiver and the crude hunting scene carved into the buttstock, you need to remove a bit of the muzzle to retain proper balance for the Hail Mary shots into the bush at running deer.

 

[leebuilder]

Oh the lies and inept laws. In some countries after the war rear sights were modifed so the range settings were limited to 300m or less.
I guess this may have opened the door for Bubba?

 

[gaff]

Back in the day, I was talking to one of the old timer gunsmiths , He bought 65 jungle carbines from the department of natural resources in NB.
At a cost of $12 each . nobody wanted them as they were army rifles. He cut the flash hiders and bayonet lugs off , and sold them as sporting rifles.
for $25 each.
after WW11 there was no interest in military firearms, every one wanted a fancy hunting rifle.

 

[fraserdw]

Back in the day, I was talking to one of the old timer gunsmiths , He bought 65 jungle carbines from the department of natural resources in NB.
At a cost of $12 each . nobody wanted them as they were army rifles. He cut the flash hiders and bayonet lugs off , and sold them as sporting rifles.
for $25 each.
after WW11 there was no interest in military firearms, every one wanted a fancy hunting rifle.

Exactly, they were not $600 Milsurps back then, they were $20 surplus that gun shops could sell in full wood. Look at all they guys that buy an Axis, then another scope and maybe another stock, same thing.

 

[buffdog]

Quote and a good one at that

Removing the lugs makes them shoot white tail more accurately. I heard it at a gunshow once.


Ahh so that is why I cannot hit a muley here in BC with my Jungle carbine..LOL

Your problem is that you are shooting it at Mule Deer. Try it on Whitetails, and then report the results here on CGN.
.
Maybe even put it up as a "Sticky"

 

[kjohn]

Yeah, I know all the story about the rifles being ex military and everybody wanted "hunting" rifles. Heck, I grew up in that era. I hunted with people who chopped up Lee Enfields. I even made the honor roll by mutilating a CZ 98. The Army & Navy stores in Regina and New Westminster had rows of them. I bought one in each store back in 1965. Thankfully, I didn't mutilate them both. Paid around $35 each. I also bought a freshly "sportered" Churchill Gunmakers No.1 in 1965 for $65.

Every gun show I have tables at, I get to hear the standard, "I bought my first Lee Enfield for $XX at Joe's Garage back in 19XX. They were stacked in a barrel." This is after the old boys get up off the floor when looking at $6-7-800 Lee Enfields.

I'll rephrase my statement from my earlier post. "The rifle that is now a $125 sporter is what could be a $600 rifle, had it not been permanently altered." How's that?

 

[saskbooknut]

Say thank you. Your $600 military rifle would only be worth $200 if we had not sporterized so many $9.95 surplus rifles.

 

[fraserdw]

Say thank you. Your $600 military rifle would only be worth $200 if we had not sporterized so many $9.95 surplus rifles.

We used to say, "so what" the legion had one preserved but today in the Sussex, NB there is a full wood #4 that is covered in dust and the wood so dry it is cracking.......

 

[Eaglelord17]

Say thank you. Your $600 military rifle would only be worth $200 if we had not sporterized so many $9.95 surplus rifles.

I would rather a ton of collectables at 200$ then a couple at 600$. Its fun to actually be able to afford to collect easily, where instead of 1 example you have 3. Collectors aren't in it for the money (at least the ones doing it right aren't).

To the OP there is many common things you need to be careful for when buying a milsurp. Bayonet lugs cut off (also commonly seen removed on Krag Jorgensons even when the stock is left in full military configuration), sight protector wings removed/ground off (such as on things like Kar88s), front sights modified, rear sights modified (for example turning a 'V' notch into a 'U'), etc. Some are easy to spot some are difficult to spot.

As to why, sometimes to try and reduce weight, make it more sporter looking, or sometimes make it shoot better for that individual. For example people will also remove the charger guides on Lee Enfields. Apparently that extra tiny bit of weight is too much for it to be a hunting rifle.

 

[Quiet]

I recall the first shooting/gun book I ever came across was in a public library and it included a chapter on how create an inexpensive sporter from a cheap, and common military surplus rifle. It recommended using the 1903 Springfield over the Krag, but in any case, a bayonet lug would need to be removed, as such a thing "has no place being seen in the hunting field".