what's the history/story of the Winchester Magnum?

Mr. Friendly

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doing a google brings up lots of articles about different caliber's that are Win Mag's, but nothing out there tells me about how the Win Mag spec came about.

what is it? how is it different? what are the pro's & con's of using them?

it's bad enough for my greenhorness to confuse me with just the different caliber's and the different methods of stating them (30-30, 30.06, .308, 6.97x52), let alone different versions of the same round! :rolleyes:
 
Weatherby alread had the 300 Weatherby Magnum, based on a blown out 300 H&H Magnum.

Winchester took thier time but came out wiht a 300 Magnum that would easily fit in a standard action. And it became the most popular 300 Magnum.

Winchester recently came out with the 300 Winchester short magnum, too.

There is only one 300 Winchester Magnum, and one 300 Winchester Short Magnum. They have no other names unless you abbreviate them 300WM or 300WSM....
 
I believe the win mag came out in '63 or '64. It does hold a marginal amount of powder over the short mag, but the short mag burns it quicker. I have found that for the bigger bullets, (190,200,220 grain) that the win mag does better than the short mag. )
The .30-30 was originally a .30 caliber bullet over 30 grains of powder. But that was a long time ago, now more powders are available and also better bullets so this isn't as old a cartridge as it used to be.
The .30 means 30/100 of an inch wide (I am sure you knew that but it never hurts to state the obvious)
The .30-06 was a .30 caliber (.308 sized bullet) that had its cartridge design improved upon in 1906 (with final decision made in 06) to adopt it for the Military. (it was traced to the .30-40 krag as it predecessor, then the .30-03 was its parent cartridge and changed in 1906)
It is dizzying to try to understand the different cartridge designations when you first start out. A cartridge like the .338-06 is an .30-06 cartridge that had the neck blown out to fit a .338 sized bullet.
Most other casings with a "dash" after it implied the brass length in millimeters. Such as the 6.5 x55 swede round (with the 6.5 meaning millimeters in diameter)
The .300 win mag is of most use for those that want to hunt with larger bullets and have them travel at the same speed that a .30-06 can send smaller bullets downrange. You have an average of 15-20 grains more powder behind the bullet so speed will be higher (although efficiency may not be optimal). Some of the pro's are flatter trajectory, harder hitting bullets for big growly animals, availability of .300 win mag ammo is good compared to some of the magnums (at places like mom and pop gun stores in the country)
Some cons are that: you need a good quality bullet for the speeds that this case generates (not that this is a "con" per se) but thin walled deer bullets dont excel when they hit an animal too fast. They often break apart at too high a speed, and/or open up too fast and dont penetrate enough.
Recoil can be prohibitive to some people (although I have found it to be OK, as long as I dont shoot 50 rounds in a sitting at the bench) . Ammo can be expensive if you dont shop around, reloading this ammo can also be expensive as it uses alot of powder and premium bullets are called for when you hunt the bigger animals such as Moose, Bears, Elk, and african plains game.
 
if all the 300 magnums were women at a bar, I think I would take the H&H because shes tall, slim, and sophisticated.

maybe the WSM if I was drunk enough

the weatherby has some nice radiused curves, the ultramag is too beefy, but I guess the win mag could be a good compromise
 
thanks for the correction and the info, guys. I badly assumed the magnum designation was attached to Win Mag as that's all I've ever seen. I guess the better question would have been to ask about the history of the 'magnum' designation instead. :redface:
 
Mr. Friendly said:
I guess the better question would have been to ask about the history of the 'magnum' designation instead. :redface:
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Good question, and to add to it:

When does a cartridge become a magnum vs a standard? Is it a certain amount of powder or just because the name is cool? Like the .44 magnum vs the .416 Rem Mag. Not even remotely close, but they're both magnums.:rolleyes:
 
When does a cartridge become a magnum vs a standard? Is it a certain amount of powder or just because the name is cool? Like the .44 magnum vs the .416 Rem Mag. Not even remotely close, but they're both magnums.
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Well up until a couple years ago, it was when they put a belt on bottleneck cases that they became "magnum". Like the 350 Rem Mag.

Of course the powers that be would throw a curve ball every now and again to confuse the #### out of gun nuts. Think 222 Rem Mag:confused:

Also, a bit of a marketing ploy, because it sounds cool. Who wouldn't buy a cartridge named after a large bottle of french booze (champagne)

Now that the "magnum" word in itself has worn off, the remington folk decided to put "ultra" in front of it. Well hell, then it must be "ultra" powerful right. They also added "super" when they lengthened the 12 ga shell to 3 1/2

Marketing, pure and simple.
 
This I do know. Our use of the term magnum actually comes from the French. The first Magnum was actually a large (1.5 litre) bottle of champagne or sparkling wine. It has to do with the idea of fitting more into a case I believe, and the term was first used by the British in regards to cartridges and firearms, I believe. Correct me if I am wrong.
 
if all the 300 magnums were women at a bar, I think I would take the H&H because shes tall, slim, and sophisticated.

maybe the WSM if I was drunk enough

the weatherby has some nice radiused curves, the ultramag is too beefy, but I guess the win mag could be a good compromise
Click to expand...

:D By far the best anology I've seen to date :cheers:
 
redlaker1 said:
if all the 300 magnums were women at a bar, I think I would take the H&H because shes tall, slim, and sophisticated.

maybe the WSM if I was drunk enough

the weatherby has some nice radiused curves, the ultramag is too beefy, but I guess the win mag could be a good compromise
Click to expand...

I prefer to think of them as follows
300 H&H, tall slim sophisticated, english and tempermental, older than the rest, no real need to change anything because she is royalty. But like the monarchy, gradually becoming more and more irrelevant.

300 RUM, an amazon, a little scary, could snap you intwo if you ever pissed her off.

300 WSM, that short stocky women, very efficient, pretty enough but never a prize.

300 Norma, an unusual, uncommon european women who is pretty but doesn't speak english, a novelty but afterwards hard to get along with.

300 Win Mag, the magnum you would take home to meet your parents and school friends, sleek, ###y, friendly, hot enough but not Angelina Jolie, firey on bed, but not an amazon, beautiful but her neck is not quite long enough for a professional modelling career, but is long enough for any other purpose.

In short a little shy of perfect in each area, but when you look at the whole package a thing of beauty, great at night, funny during the day, a great Mom to your future kids and the kind of women who still looks great in her 50's.

IN case you didn't get the it I am a 300 win mag fan.
 
martinbns said:
I prefer to think of them as follows
300 H&H, tall slim sophisticated, english and tempermental, older than the rest, no real need to change anything because she is royalty. But like the monarchy, gradually becoming more and more irrelevant.

300 RUM, an amazon, a little scary, could snap you intwo if you ever pissed her off.

300 WSM, that short stocky women, very efficient, pretty enough but never a prize.

300 Norma, an unusual, uncommon european women who is pretty but doesn't speak english, a novelty but afterwards hard to get along with.

300 Win Mag, the magnum you would take home to meet your parents and school friends, sleek, ###y, friendly, hot enough but not Angelina Jolie, firey on bed, but not an amazon, beautiful but her neck is not quite long enough for a professional modelling career, but is long enough for any other purpose.

In short a little shy of perfect in each area, but when you look at the whole package a thing of beauty, great at night, funny during the day, a great Mom to your future kids and the kind of women who still looks great in her 50's.

IN case you didn't get the it I am a 300 win mag fan.
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...all that from a cartridge eh? Bartender, I'm having what he's having!;):D
 
further on my education of my understanding of the magnum round, what kind of game is the magnum cartridge used on and why? aside from the smaller action the magnum requires (for the most part, right?), there are magnum variations that in the end don't have a smaller action, so it's basically a super shot. faster, smoother/straighter trajectory and better penetration.
 
Mr. Friendly said:
further on my education of my understanding of the magnum round, what kind of game is the magnum cartridge used on and why? aside from the smaller action the magnum requires (for the most part, right?), there are magnum variations that in the end don't have a smaller action, so it's basically a super shot. faster, smoother/straighter trajectory and better penetration.
Click to expand...

The only magnum cartridges that use a short action of 2.8 or 2.9 inches is the Winchester Short Mags(Ruger and REmington have as well), a "normal" magnum uses a max OAL length of 3.6 inches, the 338 win mag and 300 win mag can use a standard action (30-06 length) of 3.4 inches.

Magnum is a name that dates back to 1911 when the 375 H&H magnum first was introduces by the British comapny Holland and Holland and then popularized by Roy Weatherby in the 30's 40's and 50's. Now it can mean just about anything.

Generally a magnum rifle uses a wider bolt face of .532 inches vs the standard .473 resulting in more case capacity and higher velocities with the same size projectiles. I use my 300 win mag for game lasrger than deer usually with high penetration bullets, moose elk and large african plains game. If I am just hunting deer generally I use my 308 with more rapidly expanding bullets as penetration isn't required like on a moose.

It's a personal choice and FWIW, a 30-06 with a good 165 or 180 gr bullet will kill all of the above with very little fuss.
 
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