what's the history/story of the Winchester Magnum?
- Thread starter Mr. Friendly
- Start date
Your ##### looks like a cartridge headstamp? You better get that checked out..
No the 375 ruger is ##### shaped... pure marketing ploy, been around since written history. Kinda like a 70's vette as a lesbian once pointed out to me.
I'm with him, I like the way he thinks.
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
Winchester introduced the 458 Winchester Magnum in 1958. It is based on a straight, shortened .375 H&H belted magnum case necked-up to accept .458" bullets. It is loaded to a MAP of 53,000 cup. The 6.5WM, the 338WM and the 300WM are all based on the 458.
Last edited:
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
I guess that would depend on your source, mine was a magazine article.
As to the .264, you are correct. Just not awake sometimes I guess.
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
Picky Picky
In North America, the first "magnum" cartridges, though not labeled as such, were the 30 and 35 Newton. Another cartridges,perhaps even less known but preceding them was the Canadian, 280 Ross.
The Newton cartridges were of quite modern design inspite of their 1913 and 1915 rspective introductory dates. In fact, the dimensions of the much later introduced 308 and 358 norma magnums, along with the Winchester magnums are so similar to the Newtons that one can't help but think the designers must have been influenced by the Newton rounds.
The European 8x68S is not the parent of the Newton rounds. The 8x68 was introduced some 27 years after the Newtons.
The Newton cartridges were never chambered by any major US company. This was likely because Newton ticked off the majors by insisting on royalties. Otherwise, it would have made much more sense for Winchester to chamber the Newtons, which were the right length for it's Model 54 and Model 70, than to open up the actions to accept the too long H&H cartridges. If the Newton cartridges had been chambered, we would probably have never seen the 300H&H in Winchester rifles. We would also have likely never seen the 300 Win Mag, the 308 Norma, the 358 Norma or the 338 Winchester. Such cartridges as the 7mm Rem would have been based on necked down Newton brass rather than 338 brass.
When Norma introduced the 358 in 1959, they adhered closely to the Newton dimensions. This is passing strange since it would seem to have made more sense to simply neck up the 338 Winchester which had been introduced the previous year.
When Norma designed the 308 Norma, the case was made slightly longer overall and longer in the head to shoulder dimension than the 358. This was done so that a 30/06 could be rechambered without setting back and the chamber would clean up.
When Winchester decided to offer a 30 caliber magnum, they would probably have simply necked down the 338 except for one thing; the resulting case would have been physically smaller than the, already established, 308 Norma and would have appeared less powerful (It would be many years later that Winchester's ad men would attempt to sell the "less is more" philosophy in the form of the WSM lineup). They wanted it to fit into the M70 magazine though so it was made with the very short neck and with bullets seated deeply. Only a couple years later, Winchester was to start production of the "new" Model 70 which was longer and didn't require such compromise in the design of the cartridge but there it was and there it stayed.
The first belted Magnums, from H&H, are still with us though the 300 is not really popular. The 375 is one of the great big game cartridges with true worldwide popularity. Probably no other cartridge has been used as much for dangerous or really large game.
The previously mentioned 280 Ross was also an influential cartridge and was likely the first of the high velocity magnum type cartridges. Later cartridges which were similar in design, though belted, were the 275 H&H and the much later but nearly indentical, 7x61 Sharpe& Hart. The 7mm Weatherby and 7mm Remington magnum were undoubtedly influenced by the Sharpe& Hart and, by extension, the original Ross.
Very often, the commercial success or failure of a cartridge is more related to the success of the marketing campaign than it is to thevalue or performance capabilities of the cartridge. I can think of no better recent example of this on the success side than the WSM line up of cartridges the development of which I find baffling at best. Regards, Bill.
The Newton cartridges were of quite modern design inspite of their 1913 and 1915 rspective introductory dates. In fact, the dimensions of the much later introduced 308 and 358 norma magnums, along with the Winchester magnums are so similar to the Newtons that one can't help but think the designers must have been influenced by the Newton rounds.
The European 8x68S is not the parent of the Newton rounds. The 8x68 was introduced some 27 years after the Newtons.
The Newton cartridges were never chambered by any major US company. This was likely because Newton ticked off the majors by insisting on royalties. Otherwise, it would have made much more sense for Winchester to chamber the Newtons, which were the right length for it's Model 54 and Model 70, than to open up the actions to accept the too long H&H cartridges. If the Newton cartridges had been chambered, we would probably have never seen the 300H&H in Winchester rifles. We would also have likely never seen the 300 Win Mag, the 308 Norma, the 358 Norma or the 338 Winchester. Such cartridges as the 7mm Rem would have been based on necked down Newton brass rather than 338 brass.
When Norma introduced the 358 in 1959, they adhered closely to the Newton dimensions. This is passing strange since it would seem to have made more sense to simply neck up the 338 Winchester which had been introduced the previous year.
When Norma designed the 308 Norma, the case was made slightly longer overall and longer in the head to shoulder dimension than the 358. This was done so that a 30/06 could be rechambered without setting back and the chamber would clean up.
When Winchester decided to offer a 30 caliber magnum, they would probably have simply necked down the 338 except for one thing; the resulting case would have been physically smaller than the, already established, 308 Norma and would have appeared less powerful (It would be many years later that Winchester's ad men would attempt to sell the "less is more" philosophy in the form of the WSM lineup). They wanted it to fit into the M70 magazine though so it was made with the very short neck and with bullets seated deeply. Only a couple years later, Winchester was to start production of the "new" Model 70 which was longer and didn't require such compromise in the design of the cartridge but there it was and there it stayed.
The first belted Magnums, from H&H, are still with us though the 300 is not really popular. The 375 is one of the great big game cartridges with true worldwide popularity. Probably no other cartridge has been used as much for dangerous or really large game.
The previously mentioned 280 Ross was also an influential cartridge and was likely the first of the high velocity magnum type cartridges. Later cartridges which were similar in design, though belted, were the 275 H&H and the much later but nearly indentical, 7x61 Sharpe& Hart. The 7mm Weatherby and 7mm Remington magnum were undoubtedly influenced by the Sharpe& Hart and, by extension, the original Ross.
Very often, the commercial success or failure of a cartridge is more related to the success of the marketing campaign than it is to thevalue or performance capabilities of the cartridge. I can think of no better recent example of this on the success side than the WSM line up of cartridges the development of which I find baffling at best. Regards, Bill.
You sure have ##### on the mind quite a bit. Is there something you want to confess to us?
Here is a group of cartridges, including the 375 Ruger. They all have the same general shape.
However, you might have ##### envy, if you look at cartridges and think of #####es...
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
Thanks Bill, your posts are a breath of fresh air.
