What's the main argument to go .44 over .357 in a Lever Rifle?

N

Northern Shooter

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Location
North
I made a post a while back trying to narrow down my next lever rifle choices. I think I have settled on a Henry Big Boy in .357 (case hardened) with the side loading gate. The problem is they are rarely in stock and when they are they only seem to last minutes.

Now what I am finding, especially with the Henry's is that the .44 models seem to be more readily available.

What are the main benefits of .44 vs .357? I already own a 45-70 for big game hunting so I'm leaning more towards a more affordable plinker with ability to take deer within 100m.

From a cost perspective the .357 is the more affordable round. I'm seeing prices for .38/.357 between $0.60-$0.68/round vs .44 which is around $1.34-$2.00/round so the winner here is the .357. Side note, is .44 Special significantly cheaper? I can't seem to find any listings for those.

In terms of ballistics and stopping power it looks like the .44 produces roughly 33% more energy for the average load. While many seem to consider the .357 underwhelming for deer, I wouldn't be taking any shots over 100m. The .44 seems more than sufficient for deer out to around 150m but I'm guessing it's on the lighter end for big game? Do people actually take Elk/Moose with .44?

Any other advantages of the .44 over the .357? I'm still leaning towards .357 as it's cheaper for plinking, the ammo seems more readily available and there are a wide variety of rounds, some of which are appropriate for hunting medium sized game at close range.

Why would one chose to go with .44 over .357, especially if they already have a 45-70?

Cheers,
 
I do not own either, but maybe you might clarify what you mean by ".44" - I know my Dad took many deer, and probably moose, with a lever action 44-40 - he also had a few shells left from a 38-40 lever rifle - was before my time, so I do not know if he had both at same time or one after the other? But that was likely just before and after WWII - he replaced that with a 30-06 in 1948 and used that rifle, ever since, until he passed on - for all his hunting. Perhaps you mean a "44 Remington Magnum" - these days?? He lived / hunted about Central Saskatchewan - an hour drive East and North of Saskatoon.
 
Potashminer said:
I do not own either, but maybe you might clarify what you mean by ".44" - I know my Dad took many deer, and probably moose, with a lever action 44-40 - he also had a few shells left from a 38-40 lever rifle - was before my time, so I do not know if he had both at same time or one after the other? But that was likely just before and after WWII - he replaced that with a 30-06 in 1948 and used that rifle, ever since, until he passed on - for all his hunting. Perhaps you mean a "44 Remington Magnum" - these days?? He lived / hunted about Central Saskatchewan - an hour drive East and North of Saskatoon.
Click to expand...

I am specifically refering to 44 Magnum. Cheers.
 
As you have said, .357 is on the very low end for hunting and you have 45/70 for that so go .357 and plink away. I have the .357 Big Boy and love it, was going to hunt with it but changed my mind after some consideration. I went .357 as I had all the reloading stuff for my revolvers and nothing for reloading .44 Rem Mag .... I do now and so am back at looking at Henry in .44 .. but now the inner debate is why not just get a 45/70? ... I don't have reloading stuff for 45/70 ... so back to the same inner debate I had with .357 and .44 lol .. if only I had $$ I would get both!
 
44 magnum has more power than 357 magnum. That's really the only advantage of the 44. Both rounds are among the most common of revolver cartridges.
 
IMO, .44 mag is more desirable if you ever want to re-sell. Personally, I wouldn't hunt deer-sized game with a .357 158-ish grain bullet having witnessed the differences in knock-down power over that of a 240 grain .44 mag, but both will do the job if you do. Cost is high for .44 mag if you don't reload, but if your just sighting in and hunting, how many rounds are you going to go through?
 
NorthernShooter: All of your arguments for the .357 are sound. Still, having owned and hunted with both calibers, up to and including deer and black bear(forest fringe area, north-central Saskatchewan), I would tend to lean more toward the .44 Mag than .357. For no other reason than it is slightly more versatile, if black bear is also on the menu.
I also own a .45-70 and prefer it as an all-around hunting tool for close range work in the bush....especially for bear. But in a pinch, the .44 serves well.
The .357 with an appropriate bullet will take down a bear too. But, a lot more care needs to be taken with shot placement. Also, the ability of a say....158 grain bullet versus a 300 grainer when it comes to anchoring a bear with a shoulder shot, can't be discounted. There are those that argue that black bear aren`t all that tough to kill, but....a little extra insurance often doesn`t hurt.
I also prefer the .44 where cast bullets are used. Especially on white tail. Here, I also prefer a fairly hard, .44/300 grain cast bullet(310 grain from Lee mold). Have taken a handful of deer with the .357 too(Rossi lever rifle). But, nothing that exceeded 70 meters range. So can't comment on its effectiveness, beyond that. I have no doubt though, that a well-placed shot will cleanly kill a deer, up to 100 meters. The .44 certainly will. Furthest kill shot to date, about 120 meters. This, with a .44 and 240 grain hollow point. Also a favourite, for muzzleloader hunting. Along with the 310 grain Lee cast bullet.
It bears mentioning that none of the game taken with either caliber, resulted in a `bang...flop` . A bit of tracking was needed, in just about every case. Though generally not too far. As might also be experienced with many other caliber choices.
Still, if you`re a competent shot and a patient hunter....I see no reason why a .357 won`t suit your needs. This caliber also makes a cheaper low-recoil plinker, too. So if you`re instincts are leaning toward the .357, I can`t see any reason not to buy one. As the caliber does fit into a useful niche, in many hunting scenarios. Great choice for pesky gophers, too. Especially with .38 Special. Besides, as you noted, there is already a .45-70 in your battery, to take care of any heavier game.

Al
 
Last edited:
I had/have and 1894 Marlin 44 and 357.

I liked the 357 to plink and have fun at the range. Yes Ammo was cheaper and easier to get. But I got rid of it. I kept the 44, it had more knock down power for deer and for targets. Big difference on steel plates dropping. between the two. The 357 was not satisfying enough on the steel. The people that know, know.

I used the $$ from the 357 and bought a 9mm rifle to plink for fun.
 
TPK said:
As you have said, .357 is on the very low end for hunting and you have 45/70 for that so go .357 and plink away. I have the .357 Big Boy and love it, was going to hunt with it but changed my mind after some consideration. I went .357 as I had all the reloading stuff for my revolvers and nothing for reloading .44 Rem Mag .... I do now and so am back at looking at Henry in .44 .. but now the inner debate is why not just get a 45/70? ... I don't have reloading stuff for 45/70 ... so back to the same inner debate I had with .357 and .44 lol .. if only I had $$ I would get both!
Click to expand...

My thinking is .357 and .44 basically fill in the same need. Both will take a deer, albeit the .44 being the better choice but with the .357 being the more affordable of the pistol calibers. .44 just seems like a mid pack offering that will kill a deer easier than a .357 but cost comparable to 30-30 and 45-70 which are both preferable for big game.
 
Alex McKr said:
potashminer: All of your arguments for the .357 are sound. I am in total agreement. Still, having owned and hunted with both calibers, up to and including deer(forest fringe area, north-central Saskatchewan), I would tend to lean more toward the .44 Mag than .357. For no other reason than it is slightly more versatile, if black bear is also on the menu.
I also own a .45-70 and prefer it as an all-around hunting tool for close range shooting in the bush....especially for bear. But in a pinch, the .44 serves well.
The .357 with an appropriate bullet will take down a bear too. But, a lot more care needs to be taken with shot placement. Also, the ability of a say....158 grain bullet versus a 300 grainer when it comes to anchoring a bear with a shoulder shot, can't be discounted. There are those that argue that black bear aren`t all that tough to kill, but....a little extra insurance often doesn`t hurt.
I also prefer the .44 where cast bullets are used. Especially on white tail. Here, I also prefer a fairly hard, .44/300 grain cast bullet(310 grain from Lee mold). Have taken a handful of deer with the .357 too(Rossi lever rifle). But, nothing that exceeded 70 meters range. So can't comment on its effectiveness, beyond that. I have no doubt though, that a well-placed shot will cleanly kill a deer, up to 100 meters. The .44 certainly will. Furthest clean kill shot to date, about 120 meters. This, with a .44 and 240 grain hollow point. Also a favourite, for muzzleloader hunting. Along with the 310 grain Lee cast bullet.
It bears mentioning that none of the game taken with either caliber, resulted in a `bang...flop` . A bit of tracking was needed, in just about every case. Though generally not too far. As might also be experienced with many other caliber choices.
Still, if you`re a competent shot and a patient hunter....I see no reason why a .357 won`t suit your needs. This caliber also makes a cheaper low-recoil plinker, too. So if you`re instincts are leaning toward the .357, I can`t see any reason not to buy one. As the caliber does fit into a useful niche, in many hunting scenarios. Great choice for pesky gophers, too. Especially with .38 Special. Besides, as you noted, there is already a .45-70 in your battery, to take care of any heavier game.

Al
Click to expand...

I am not "arguing" for or against either .357 Mag or 44 Mag for hunting - I have no experience on game with either - I do not own nor have ever owned either - in revolver or in rifle. My deer (white tail and mule deer) were taken with 165 grain 308 Win, 150 grain 7x57 and one was taken with 165 grain from 30-06 - I also fired many rounds "at" deer with 303 British, but never got one with that cartridge - just lots of "experience" at missing things that I wanted to hit. I have taken three elk - first was with the same 165 grain 308 Win and next two with 225 grain 338 Win Mag. Never shot a black bear, yet, so no experience on those either. We do get black bears in our yard - especially later when wild choke cherries are ripe - the damn dog runs them off - sooner or later one will not run and dog will loose that scrap big time - I have been out three times to over-see, and settle things if required - the rifle that I take for that is 9.3x62 with 250 grain Accubonds. I had my 15 year old grand daughter out "plinking" last weekend - we took a pair of 22 Magnum rimfire rifles - a left hand bolt action for her and a lever action for me. I have a 17 HMR new-to-me rifle on the way but can not find ammo for it - contrarily, I took delivery of some 320 grain Woodleigh for that 9.3x62 this week. Not sure that either 357 Mag or 44 Mag would be useful to me??
 
Last edited:
Northern Shooter said:
...Why would one chose to go with .44 over .357, especially if they already have a 45-70?...
Click to expand...

I think it's pretty clear you should choose the 357. You already have a 45-70, which is extremely versatile for hunting. It sounds like you're looking for primarily a plinking rifle, and the 357 will be much, much cheaper to feed. You might try this rifle for close range hunting, but unless you really need something shorter or lighter the novelty will probably wear off pretty quick and you'll go right back to the 45-70. The right tool for the job...

The 44 would be the clear choice if you didn't already have the 45-70. 44 Special ammunition is only cheaper if you reload, which it sounds like you don't.

In a perfect world, you'd have the 357 (plinking), 44 (deer hunting), and 45-70 (elk / bear hunting). If you can only swing two of them, go 357 and 45-70.
 
potashminer: Mistake on my part. I somehow mixed your comment up with Northern Shooter`s. Was not intended for you, at all. ``Old timers`` at play, here. Have corrected my post.

Sorry....Al
 
OneBarfly said:
IMO, .44 mag is more desirable if you ever want to re-sell. Personally, I wouldn't hunt deer-sized game with a .357 158-ish grain bullet having witnessed the differences in knock-down power over that of a 240 grain .44 mag, but both will do the job if you do. Cost is high for .44 mag if you don't reload, but if your just sighting in and hunting, how many rounds are you going to go through?
Click to expand...

I'm thinking this rifle will be for 95% plinking and 5% hunting. I'll likely buy .38/.357 in bulk (1000 rounds) and buy dedicated hunting rounds by the box.
 
Last edited:
Northern Shooter: Got the right guy, this time! For your needs, the .357 makes a perfect choice. Do you reload? If so, components for the 38/357 are relatively inexpensive and readily available. The .38/357 also responds well to a number of smokeless powders, depending on bullet weight. If you don't reload at present, but may in the future....be sure to save all your spent brass. Will come in handy.

Al

ps: I like Henry rifles, too. Excellent build quality. Accurate, reliable and likely the best after sale service in the industry. Have spoken with Henry president: Anthony Imperato, on several occasions. A straight-up guy. The ability to load cartridges either through the tube magazine or through the side loading gate, is a real plus. Very versatile.
 
Alex McKr said:
Northern Shooter: Got the right guy, this time! For your needs, the .357 makes a perfect choice. Do you reload? If so, components for the 38/357 are relatively inexpensive and readily available. The .38/357 also responds well to a number of smokeless powders, depending on bullet weight. If you don't reload at present, but may in the future....be sure to save all your spent brass. Will come in handy.

Al

ps: I like Henry rifles, too. Excellent build quality. Accurate, reliable and likely the best after sale service in the industry. Have spoken with Henry president: Anthony Imperato, on several occasions. A straight-up guy. The ability to load cartridges either through the tube magazine or through the side loading gate, is a real plus. Very versatile.
Click to expand...

I don't currently reload but with the way prices have gone Its well passed time I did. Problem is I've heard from the reloaders that components have also jumped in price and sourcing components can be difficult.

The comments here basically reafffirmed my decision that .357 is the way to go and it will pair nicely with the 45-70.

Finding a nice Henry in stock will now be the challenge.
 
Easy enough to work out the cost of components to re-load - is 7000 grains in pound of powder - look at the recipe that you work up to - so for 357 Mag is likely like 10.0 grains of some sort of powder for jacketed bullets - varies a bit, depending which powder that you use - but that means about 700 rounds in one pound of powder - whatever that costs you. Then bullets and primers - obviously one each for each round - however much they cost you to buy. Then cases - so either buying new ones or using your previous fired ones for a while - can also work out the cost of that. Cases likely re-loadable many times - I do not re-load handgun cartridges, so do not even have a guesstimate how many rounds they will last - likely like centerfires rifle - the "hotter" your loads, the more often that you are replacing brass cases.

Then probably $200 to $2000 for reloading tools and gear to re-size cases, trim, de-prime, re-prime, meter out / weigh powder load and seat bullet. Not everyone does all steps for a handgun loading. Or buy store bought ammunition for whatever that costs these days. Notice that the cost or value of your time to re-load was not included in the above - is more or less important to some people.

I tried casting bullets for a while - some people will swear is the thing to do - first need to get some lead, which is often no longer that easy to do. Then need a way to melt that lead - is handy to have some way to know the melt temp - like a casting thermometer - some do not care. Then moulds. Often then a lube-sizer and dies and lube for it. Then get into the "powder coat" game, and the apparatus that takes to do - is easy and straightforward for some, but gets to be PITA for others. I sold all my casting stuff - just buy cast bullets pre-lubed and pre-gas checked what I think I need, on line - for me making my own was just not a cost effective thing to do - might very well be for others.

Lead - is the same 7000 grains in a pound - so if you are casting 158 grain bullets, will get 44.3 bullets from a pound - gives you an idea how much lead that you might want to accumulate. Some guys want to mix in tin and other metals to create an alloy with pure lead - so also have the cost of those additions if you want to do that to make harder bullets, or to heat treat them. Likely can not heat treat pure lead - need some antinomy in the mix, I think - to get a "hardening" from heat treat and rapid cooling.

Unfortunately, the days of $3 to reload a box of 20 cartridges is pretty much gone, for most of us ...
 
Last edited:
I dislike 'That guy' but Ima be him today...45 LC is a better fit all around than either of the magnums. If you need the power, it'll bring it, with less noise and recoil than a brisk 44 Mag or 357 Mag...not even going to consider 38 spl, that is just silly.
 
tokguy: No argument here. The .45 Colt is a potent and versatile hunting round. Personally, I still think it's best suited as a black powder cartridge. Which is mostly how I load it. But certainly performs well with smokeless powders. I do disagree with you on the .38 Special, though. Not all that useful as a hunting round....except for small game. But, as a plinker and target round, it's hard to beat.....at least in my opinion.

Al
 
I think you'll be perfectly fine using it for hunting. While I never shot a deer with the 357 mag Handy rifle I used to own, I did carry it for deer hunting and had no real worries at the range I would use it for. I wouldn't push the limits, but deer aren't bulletproof
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom