whats the most useless or pointless cartridge ever

you're right there isn't much wrong with them but i've read in OL magazine that they weren't accurate yet i've read people here say they shoot really good.

wsm's would have been better in winchester had just blown out the 284 win case that way they wound just need a 308 size bolt and bolt face and mabe the same action
 
Might be that with a shorter barrel the 270 would match the 270wsm but I doubt it would beat it. Sometimes I wonder if the 22" barrels that you sometimes see for magnum calibres are sufficient. Most of the WSM's are 24" though there are some WSSM's in 22" like the .223 that I would have expected to see a 24" barrel.

With browning chroming the inside of the super shorts does that help with the throat erosion or just help with the overall barrel wear (ie rifling)?
 
The WSM/SAUM series' are prime examples of the rilfe manufacturers trying to make money outside rifles sales. Deer, Moose, and Bear have all been hitting the dust with such cartridges as the 30-06, 308 and so on. Why do we need something better than that? Not knocking guys for buying the WSM's but for average hunting the difference is only on paper.

308 Marlin? Why not just get a Win 88, Savage 99, or that ugly Browning BLR? At least your ammunition will be common place and not something your stuck buying from one specific manufacturer.

Its cool to have something new I guess, but my 6.5 Swede and 308 will do just fine for me, and if I were to add one more cartridge to that list it would be a 30-06 and with handloads, there isn't much those cartridges can't do.
 
uphere said:
you're right there isn't much wrong with them but i've read in OL magazine that they weren't accurate yet i've read people here say they shoot really good.

wsm's would have been better in winchester had just blown out the 284 win case that way they wound just need a 308 size bolt and bolt face and mabe the same action
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my friend has a Model 70 300wsm that would shoot 180 grain fail safe factory loads (2.8" OAL) into 3/4" groups right out of the box. The magazine length in his rifle is 3.1" but I dont know if the throat is cut that long

if Winchester made a 30-284 it would of been a failure because it would match the 30-06, which would be just fine for most hunting applications, but it would fail to capture the buzz of magazines and advertising-loving shooters. speed sells

new cartridges spark gun sales. simple as that. nothing wrong with the proven classics, its just reinventing the wheel to keep guys forking out the $$$$ for another gun. Winchester, Ruger, Remington, Tikka, etc are in it for the money, It IS a business of course
 
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uphere said:
you're right there isn't much wrong with them but i've read in OL magazine that they weren't accurate yet i've read people here say they shoot really good.

wsm's would have been better in winchester had just blown out the 284 win case that way they wound just need a 308 size bolt and bolt face and mabe the same action
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Rule #1. Take everything you've ever read in a magazine, study it, memorize it, then dismiss it. These guy's get their paychecks from the sponser of the month. As for the .284 idea, iregardless, you would be buying a new rifle anyways. There's no big deal in opening up a boltface to a .404 or similar dimension. One way or the other, the feed rails would need to go on a diet. That's the biggest issue with these cartridges, and feeding problems. If anyone thinks their going to save a ton of weight over a conventonal magnum, they probably have feeding problems of their own. In my humble opinion, they offer no advantage over a conventional cartridge, but they did pump fresh blood into the sport.
 
OldSavage said:
The WSM/SAUM series' are prime examples of the rilfe manufacturers trying to make money outside rifles sales. Deer, Moose, and Bear have all been hitting the dust with such cartridges as the 30-06, 308 and so on. Why do we need something better than that?
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Why did we need the 308 when we had the 30-06? And why the 30-06 when we had the 303 and 30-40. And why either of those when we had the 45-70? etc, etc. all the way back to 'when we had big rocks'
 
todbartell said:
325 wsm is actually quite popular, at least in BC. Its a step between 300 mags and 338s, which are fine useful hunting cartridges for stuff bigger and meaner than you find in Ontario

and no way a 270 winchester will match let alone beat a 270WSM, with comparable bullets and pressures. More capacity = more powder = more speed, aint no way around that one

Im not a big WSM fan but there isnt much wrong with them
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Tod,

The article in question was published in Shooting Times in 2005 & was recently republished in the "Best Of" special issue of the best articles from both Shooting Times & Guns & Ammo. Its on magazine racks now if you'd like to check it out. Assuming the author's data is correct, the .270 Win was actually faster than the .270 WSM with some bullet weights.

As for the .325 WSM...looking at sales of ammunition and loading dies, I still think its future is iffy since anything it can do, the .338 Win Mag can do better, with a far better selection of both factory ammo and component bullets. They tried to do a .338 WSM, but they couldn't get the ballistics/performance where they wanted them, so the dropped down to the .325 It might be popular with some elk hunters in BC, but I don't hear too many hunters raving about it, and other than the writers paid to promote it, the industry "buzz" on it seems decidedly lacking. I personally have nothing against the caliber, but if I was a new guy just starting out or somebody looking for a new big game rifle, I'd look at selecting a more established caliber, rather than end up being stuck with a rifle that will be impossible to find factory ammo for in 10 years.
 
I dont care what a write wrote in a gun rag, the 270 winchester will not outrun a 270wsm, all things being equal. Its like saying a 30-06 will outperform a 300wsm, it just wont, unless you load the 30-06 to max and load the WSM to less than max pressures.

anyways

in 2015 the 325wsm will still be around, probably fairly common too. Wait until Winchester gets their #### together and builds some 325s, right now its just Browning carrying the cartridge. :puke:
 
pharaoh2 said:
I love big rocks. I'm drinking one now.:D
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X2 I'm into a nice cold Big Rock Honey brown lager, and I can't believe I have never tried this line of beer before. :)

Oh and as for useless cartridge...IMHO that is the one someone never learns how to use properly.
 
todbartell said:
in 2015 the 325wsm will still be around, probably fairly common too. Wait until Winchester gets their s**t together and builds some 325s, right now its just Browning carrying the cartridge. :puke:
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I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Look at the 300 WSM - it was popular, so every other gun manufacturer picked up the chambering. The very fact that it's only browning says something. Even the reloading dies for it are in most manufacturer's 'limited run' or botique series'. I don't expect to see the 325 meet the popularity of the 8mm RM, and we all know that that's not a particularly popular chambering itself. Components and ammo are still available if you look around, but how long ago was the last 8mm chambered? Did anyone other than Remington ever pick up that chambering?
 
IIRC the 8mm was dropped in the 700 BDL in 1987

20 years later you can still get factory ammo for it, although just one flavour
 
I suppose it depends what your criteria of what a 'successful' cartridge are. I'd expect history to prove the 325 as moderately less successful than the 8mm RM
 
todbartell said:
in 2015 the 325wsm will still be around, probably fairly common too. Wait until Winchester gets their s**t together and builds some 325s, right now its just Browning carrying the cartridge. :puke:
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That's the only thing holding the .325 back right now, one manufacturer, although I think Kimber is chambering it too? Other manufacturers will pick this up and eventually it'll be widely available, just like the .300wsm. It wasn't chambered in every make either for a couple years. 8mm bullets aren't going anywhere, and brass can be made from the .300wsm, which aren't going anyhere either.:)

As for factory ammo, who knows what will happen in the future and if it will be affordable at all. Most premium ammo is up 10% again this year.

As a side note, I wouldn't be surprised if a new winchester 70 is built, but just an A-bolt variant.:rolleyes:
 
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prosper said:
Why did we need the 308 when we had the 30-06? And why the 30-06 when we had the 303 and 30-40. And why either of those when we had the 45-70? etc, etc. all the way back to 'when we had big rocks'
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To answer your questions here are my answers:

The 308 gave us similar power to the 30-06 for guys who prefer short action guns such as the Win 88, Savage 99, and so on. A good enough reason to me, as I love my Savage 99 in 308 and it sure beats the hell out of a 30-30 Win or Marlin.

The 303 has the ballastics of a 30-30 and maybe a little light for some bigger game. So on with the 30-06 or 308 for Moose and deer extending your range and giving you better feeding reliability in more modern rifles with a rimless casing.

The 45-70 and the 30-40 are not even in the same category as the above mentioned cartridges. If anything replaced those cartidges it was the 20 gauge slug. A 45-70 is not far off throwing rocks.

I knew this would be a pissing match and thats why I joined in. Good conversation with good people. I hope people don't take offence to these types of posts.
 
Thanks, you've clarified my point. There is a clear evolution occuring. The WSM offers mag ballistics in a smaller case, like the 308/30-06. It offers more 'modern' case design, and flatter ballistics.


Claiming that something new is 'pointless' because "some other cartridge" has been killing game since forever is a foolish argument. No one is saying that the new cartridges are necessary for killing game, but they ARE superior in a lot of obvious and observable ways. Sure it's not vastly different from other cartridges, but evolution and improvements are made in small steps
 
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