What's up with 28 guage guns

tony238 said:
I ahot my first goose with a .410 and I don't see why people call it a poorly patterning gun seeing as this goose was hit about 75 yards in the air.

I am typing these lines in my favourite room. I call it "the gunroom" because my gun safe, trophies and everything related to hunting/shooting/fishing is in this room.

Last Father's day, my 15 year old son (who is an apprentice hunter) placed a sign on the door of our "gunroom".

The sign reads:

"HUNTERS, FISHERMEN AND OTHER LIARS GATHER HERE"

:D :p
 
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Tozman said:
I have read an article where the author was saying that the length of the shot string is a determining factor in obtaining a "clean kill".

For example, a bird hit simultaneously by 3 pellets will be killed more "cleanly" than the same bird being hit by the same 3 pellets reaching the target within a fraction of a second of each other..... This is due to the "shock" effect. Pellets hiting at the same same time creating a greater "shock" effect than the same number of pellets hitting at different times...

Unfortunatly, I am unable to find that article. I would appreciate your comments on that subject.

Well certainly in theory you are more likely to hit a moving target with a "square" shot string than you are with an elongated one because your entire pattern is going to be filled in at roughly the same time whereas with an elongated shot string, the tail end may not arrive in time to hit your moving target at all, depending on the speed the target is moving and the shot velocity. So theoretically, although a longer shot string might produce denser patterns on paper, the pattern on a moving target might be more sporadic.

This is often touted as an unforseen disadvantage of magnum length loads by appreciators of the standard load. In reality... well, it's probably not so, given the velocity of ammuniton. In reality, I think that the milder recoil,ease of handling, and regularity of the standard loads account for their greater individual hit probability on moving targets than anything else.

As for the concept of "shock effect" from projectile impact: It's a subject worth discussing not just in terms of shotgunning, but terminal ballistics in general. First, what is "shock" in terms of terminal ballistics? Everyone seems to talk about it, but very few will can tell you exactly what it is. And I have never heard of a satisfactory definition of it from a qualified person. Everyone seems to take it as a given. Personally, when I am talking about "shock effect" in terminal ballistics, I am talking about two things. First is the compression of soft tissue in what we call the elastic, or temporary wound cavity that is created when a projectile penetrates the body. The temporary wound cavity is often many times larger than the permenant wound cavity. A quick look at any ballistics gel tests will reveal what I mean. Among other things, this may create a spike in blood pressure that could cause systems in the body to immediately fail or overload the CNS (central nervous system) if the spike is large enough. The second is sensory effect on the CNS. Which is to say how much pain the impact of the projectile causes. Is it possible, in fact, for the impact and power of the projectile to be so grevious and damaging as to render the target instantly unconcious?

The fact is that we do not know. No tests have ever been created to measure "shock effect" in these terms.

What we DO know, and know for a fact, is that regardless of the "shock effect" of a projectile, gunshot deaths are caused by hypovolemia (blood loss) or by physical disruption of the CNS (blowing their brains out).

So, to answer your question after all of that round about: It probably doesn't matter.
 
snowball said:
I shoot all my upland game and waterfowl and clays with a 28 except for geese and turkey.
snowball, if you don't mind me asking where are you finding non-tox 28 gauge? Do you reload or do you live/hunt in a country outside of North America that permits lead for waterfowl?
 
Whoops!

Claybuster,

Whoops, as Bill Clinton would say, "I missspoke myself". The little duck hunting I do (as opposed to goose) , I do with the 28 gauge magnum---20 Gauge!

I might try reloading busmuth when my bank account recovers from some recent shocks. I would not hesitate to use the 28 on ducks over decoys out to maybe 30 yards.

I would hate to even think of the cost of non-tox factory loads. I have seen 28 lead hunting loads as high as $17.50 per box.

I do reload all my 28 target loads and also put together Spread-R loads in 28.

The first barrel on a woodcock hunt is Skeet #9's with a Spread-R load and the second is IC with an AA factory load of #9's. I figure this is good from about 5 yards to 25. If I see a woodcock past 25 yards, I wish it good luck, and let it go.

When grouse are present, I use a Spread-R load in an IC choke with #9's and a modified choke with 7 1/2 or 8 premium hunting loads. Maybe good on grouse out to 30 yards ,and still OK for woodcock.
 
Don't recall seeing any Polywad products at some of the Ontario retailers I frequent.

CB - any idea who (GTA, surrounding areas) may carry this?
 
Thanks snowball for clarifying.

I've not hunted my 28 gauge but will rectify that situation come fall and your load selection makes perfect sense. Have you loaded anything beyond 3/4's of an ounce in 28? I'm loading Federal and Cheddite hulls and there certainly seems to be more than enough room in the Cheddite for a 13/16 or even a 1 ounce load. I know Winchester makes a 1 ounce factory hunting load but I've patterned it and was underwhelmed.

Ahsan, I've not seen Polywad products anywhere in the GTA that I can recall.
 
Claybuster:

Managed to down more than a few "ditch parotts" with Challenger's "Standard Game" loads in 1 oz. 6's and the same in Winchester's Super X High Brass loads.

The AA 28 standard target load ( AA28-8 ... 3/4 oz. 8's) is very effective on grouse & woodcock, and I would think the AA Super Sport ( AASC28 - Sporting Clay) loads in size 7-1/2 @ 1300 fps might be quite useful too.

Alas, not aware of a non-tox load, but 3/4 oz. of Bismuth reloads should do nicely for decoying ducks. ( I shot quite a few teal & ringnecks in Cuba with copper plated Federal International 24 gram - 7-1/2 trap loads ... didn't feel handicapped in the least ! )
 
polywad

I stick to reloading the equivalent of AA factory loads in the 28 and don't want or feel the need to load beyond that. If I want to shoot an ounce, I will shoot my 20 ga., but stick mostly to 7/8 oz. loads in that ga.for targets, grouse and woodcock. Same chokes and same strategy for the 20, as for the 28...

BTW, I carry the 20 in bear country hunting grouse, if I don't have a partner along with a his 20, so I can have a few slugs in my back pocket. (yes I know it is illegal, but dying or having my dog mauled is worse.)

I have loaded a 50 cal. 285 grain hollow point black powder bullet in my 28 wad and closed the shell, but have not had the guts to test fire one. It is a perfect fit and will go through the barrel just fine, but I am too cautious to try it. Anyone willing to test fire this in you multithousand dollar shotgun can have one for free.

Also,I imported my little Spread-R thingies from the manufatacturer in the U.S. They won't mail you shells, but the compoments are not a problem.
 
Well - they say the 16 is great because it hits like a 12 and recoils like a 20 :) I guess teh 28 could be said to hit like a 20 and recoil more like a 410. I love my 16, but i've never tried a 28. I'm not sure what it can do that the 20 doesn't do just as well, but obviuosly it's got a following.
 
snowball said:
BTW, I carry the 20 in bear country hunting grouse, if I don't have a partner along with a his 20, so I can have a few slugs in my back pocket. (yes I know it is illegal, but dying or having my dog mauled is worse.)

I started a thread about this very question a while back, after being suprised by something big crashing through the woods at me, while I was standing on a trail with my .410 single. Turned out to be a big cow moose, which crossed in front only several yards away, but it was uncomfortable holding a gun with only one .410 shot shell at hand in that situation.

I now stick to my 20g with some slugs on my belt, when out for grouse. The 20 is all I hunt now anyhow, as I found the .410 lacking in the type of country I hunt. Man, all this talk is getting me antsy. Isn't it september yet? I have been out on the ATV a lot, and have seen a LOT of hens with 6-7 chicks in tow. It's shaping up to be a lot better year than last year here.

I know a patch of wood where I intend to have a meeting engagement with an old acquaintance from last year! ;)
 
AS for the 410 75 yds story he never said he was actually shooting at that particular goose, even geese can have a bad day. For the other fellow who think 28's are a new fad, think again they were at their height when quail, rail, passenger and dove shooting often burned two or three hundred rounds light recoil, square patterns and fast handling guns. At some cubs a missed shot could cost a hundred dollars. The shooters of those days had more bets on than any golfer.All guage skeet shooters would often shoot 400 at a competition.
 
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