Is it just me or is the bulk of the 1940's, 50's, 60' 70's pump shotguns made in full choke? I understand they used lead exclusively for upland and waterfowl. Is full choke better with lead? I only ask because the bulk of the model 37, model 12 and 870 wingmasters I see before removable chokes are fixed full choke. I am seriously asking because I don't know, was it the most popular choke pattern back then? Thanks
What's with all the full chokes on vintage pumps?
- Thread starter Max-4
- Start date
Back when lead was used for waterfowling, full was the preferred choke. Yes.
On a SXS you would often see cyl/f or cyl/ imp mod however.
Cat
Before plastic wads, full chokes worked best with the felt wads of the day. I have many older guns with long full chokes and they are my favourite for shooting sporting clays, nothing like hitting a clay and having it completely disappear into black dust.
Yep. Back in the “good old days” of lead shot you could really reach out there with lead. Of course you needed the tighter choke to keep your pattern dense enough. I hunt over decoys with IC and LM now. A Mod with Steel shot is considered the equivalent of shooting a full with lead.
The same question could be asked of todays shotguns. Why when a shotgun comes with only one choke is it always a Mod?
The same question could be asked of todays shotguns. Why when a shotgun comes with only one choke is it always a Mod?
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Midnight Rider
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- ......the Vanishing Point .
The short answer is yes , most all long barreled shotguns were fixed full choke prior to the introduction of steel shot .
madtrapper143
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Steep Rock Lake NWO
30" FULL choke was the industry standard for 12 gauge for manufacturers. Since most stores stocked the standard that's what people bought. MOD and IMP CYL were available but often had to be ordered. Few were ordered. Folks liked the long range capability of the FULL choke.
Darryl
Darryl
- Location
- Blaster land, Okanagan BC
I still like a full choke in a screw in choke, honestly though whatever gives me the shot pattern and slug accuracy in one choke is my go to. I don’t really loose sleep if it’s a full or mod or imp cly, as long as it produces what I’m looking for.
I used to get discouraged by the lack of other than full chokes on ordinary shotguns from any date prior to the appearance of choke tubes. My belief and that of a few gun authors of the time is that people used to insist on full chokes out of ignorance of what would work best for them. Often thanks to military service, most sportsmen were trained rifle shooters who wanted their shotguns to shoot like rifles and would incorrectly assume that their rifle skills would take care of close to medium range shots that weren't out at the furthest possible effective distances where full choke would shine. I think it was Jack O'Conner who described the old guys who had a favourite gun that 'couldn't miss' and his belief was that those guns has been fired so much that the previously full chokes had been opened up, giving a more effect shot pattern than any more mint full choke guns those men might have.
If the pheasant flushed and got out of effective range of your modified choke as you were fumbling to get on target - you were frequently SOL.
If on the other hand you had a full choke and he flushed close you could pause a second or so until he was at optimum range and drop him with max pattern and relatively little meat damage.
In that way the full choke was perhaps a bit more versatile.
If on the other hand you had a full choke and he flushed close you could pause a second or so until he was at optimum range and drop him with max pattern and relatively little meat damage.
In that way the full choke was perhaps a bit more versatile.
madtrapper143
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Steep Rock Lake NWO
I like and collect 16 bore pumps. Mainly Winchester 12, Remington 870 and Ithaca 37. ( I do have a BPS but that is part of another story) Most I find, if not all are full choke. I have found full choke in the early (leaves twigs) grouse season busts through the canopy and does a pretty good job. #6 shot seems the best. The duck season sees these guns out with Bismuth shot. I don't really see full choke much of a disadvantage. I also can load some spreader loads if needed. I feel the big issue with older full choked guns is the barrel length. I prefer 26" barrels on pumps and autoloaders not the often found 28" and 30".
Darryl
Darryl
Actually the earlier quality of lead shot was one reason full chokes were used. There was very little antimony content in that shot making it very soft and subject to deformation do to the initial burst of energy from the shell going off. Also as the lead pellets travelled down the barrel some would also be deformed. The result of these deformed pellets was there would be a lot more fliers and pellets not flying very well causing the pattern to be very open. As a result an ic choke may not have been very useful in the early days thus a full choke tightened the pattern to useful levels. With the advent of more modern powders and the plastic shot cup there was less deformation of the pellets. Modern powders provided a smoother initial 'push' to the pellets causing less deformation. The plastic shot cup helped protect the shot travelling down the barrel from becoming deformed as well. With less pellet deformation shot patterns improved and allowed for the use of less choke. An increase in lead quality also helped. I may be a little off in my descriptions but I am basically paraphrasing what Michael Mcintosh said ( a great shotgun writer everyone should read).
One of my favorite pheasant gun when I live in Central Asia was an O/U 16 GA 28" barrel choked F / F just ground up pheasants, I also had a 12GA O/U choked F over M and it worked well also, we had 3 GSH pointers and had a 4 month season, man we killed a pile of pheasant, kelik, and rabbits in the 5 years I lived there, great memories
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I suspect it’s about value. If you were going to buy one shotgun for upland and waterfowl, one would want it to be full choke. There’s no reason you can’t shoot a grouse on the ground or out of a tree with a full choke once you learned how it patterns. And when it, flying away, you’ve got the range to knock it down.
I use mod/full in my o/u and honestly, don’t have trouble hitting birds with either barrel.
