What's with all the smoke?

greywolf67nt

greywolf67nt

CGN frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
40   0   0
Location
Stony Plain, AB
I reloaded some 9mm 124gn LRN with 3.8gn Vhitvuori N320 with CCI primers and some .45 ACP with 230gn LRN on 6.0gn Longshot with CCI primers.
SMOKE! Holy crap I thought this stuff was supposed to be smokeless.
Am I missing something? Using the wrong powder? Wrong primers? Are hand made cartridges just typically more smokey?
I had a couple store bought rounds in my ammo box so tried them and practically nothing smoke wise.
Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated as the mosquitoes up here are HUGE and they are drawn to the smoke like flies to garbage. I am one big bite mark.
 
LRN: You are using a lead bullet with a wax sealant called Alox. This is what causes most of the smoke. As chamber pressure and heat rise, this stuff does it's job: melt to seal the gases in behind the bullet, but it also burns smokily once it hits oxygen outside the barrel. Switch to plated or jackets bullets, or remove the Alox and powder coat the ones you have and your smoke will disappear.
 
I have never used N320 but I have found that using titegroup in lower quantities caused a lot of smoke with my lead round nose lubed or powder coated. If you can raise the powder charge within safe parameters and see if the smoke goes away.
 
Slight correction. Alox is not the same as the waxes that are commonly used in the grooves. Alox is Lee's name for it's product that is used to tumble coat cast bullets that don't use the more normal injected wax lube in the side skirt grooves. They even sell molds for casting which have a knurled side skirt pattern that is optimized for Alox use.

I've seen a lot of recovered bullets where the wax is mostly still present. I gather from this that the smoke we see isn't so much the whole amount of wax being burnt as it is the amount that the pressure pushes against the bore. Then as the bullet passes that this part left on the bore is partially or wholly burned by the hot gasses of the charge behind the bullet.
 
Longshot burns very dirty unless you get the pressure up....I've never been a fan of it, and stick with HS6.
 
Using almost the same load with 124 gn plates bullets and have a very clean burn. I think its the bullet lube,
 
I have the same problem with Titegroup, TONS of smoke. You'd swear I was shooting a black powder cap n ball.
I'll give HS6 a try, I'll also happily take any advice on a powder that doesn't have that problem with cast bullets?
There was a sale and I am gonna get blacklung before I am out of bullets!!!
 
gmartinqc said:
I have the same problem with Titegroup, TONS of smoke. You'd swear I was shooting a black powder cap n ball.
I'll give HS6 a try, I'll also happily take any advice on a powder that doesn't have that problem with cast bullets?
There was a sale and I am gonna get blacklung before I am out of bullets!!!
Click to expand...

It is not the powder. The lubricant on the cast bullets makes the smoke.
 
Ganderite said:
It is not the powder. The lubricant on the cast bullets makes the smoke.
Click to expand...

Yes I understand that.

I tried contacting the powder manufacturer, the bullet manufacturer, various forums and I am getting nothing useful.
All I am told is its the lubricant, which it does seem so as powder coated and plated bullets do not do this.
Some have said the powder we use burns too hot and melts the lube before it leaves the barrel, so if that is the case what powder should I use?
I can't really afford all the powders in my loading books to try em all. Anyone shooting commercial cast bullets without choking the whole firing line or making targets disappear behind a cloud telling me what powder they use would be appreciated.
If we were 30 years back I'd just shoot outside in a sandpit, but that is not really an option anymore.

Thank you for any advice that would actually be useful.
 
The lube is SUPPOSED to melt. That's how bullet lube works. The burning powder also burns the lube left behind by the bullet.

Nature of the beast.

Only options- get used to the smoke or get rid of the bullets
 
gmartinqc said:
Yes I understand that.

I tried contacting the powder manufacturer, the bullet manufacturer, various forums and I am getting nothing useful.
All I am told is its the lubricant, which it does seem so as powder coated and plated bullets do not do this.
Some have said the powder we use burns too hot and melts the lube before it leaves the barrel, so if that is the case what powder should I use?
I can't really afford all the powders in my loading books to try em all. Anyone shooting commercial cast bullets without choking the whole firing line or making targets disappear behind a cloud telling me what powder they use would be appreciated.
If we were 30 years back I'd just shoot outside in a sandpit, but that is not really an option anymore.

Thank you for any advice that would actually be useful.
Click to expand...

If you already understand it is burning bullet lube then why are you still stuck on what powder to use? While a small amount of the smoke is from the powder, the majority of the smoke is from the lube burning. Changing powders will have little impact upon how much smoke you are making.

There are two things that will reduce, not eliminate smoke with lubed cast bullets. 1) Harder, higher melt temp lubes will melt and burn a little less, but may not lube the bullets enough. 2) As already mentioned, pistol/shotgun powders are smokey if the pressures are too low. Ensuring you are operating at mid to higher pressures with your chosen powder will help the powder burn cleaner and reduce its contribution to the haze generated.

Lubed cast bullets will produce smoke no matter what, and if you can't control it enough for your needs, then look at the lower smoke alternatives that have been mentioned.
 
Unless you're casting your own, why shoot lead? From whst I've seen lately in pricing, lead vs plated/ jacketed are around the same price. Lead fouls the barrel way more.... oh yeah, and they smoke.
 
rosconow said:
Unless you're casting your own, why shoot lead? From whst I've seen lately in pricing, lead vs plated/ jacketed are around the same price. Lead fouls the barrel way more.... oh yeah, and they smoke.
Click to expand...

If you look around you can get lead boolits for 7-10 cents/each all in if you buy in quantity. If you can find plated for the same let me know because I'll buy a bunch lol.
 
 
BCRider said:
Slight correction. Alox is not the same as the waxes that are commonly used in the grooves. Alox is Lee's name for it's product that is used to tumble coat cast bullets that don't use the more normal injected wax lube in the side skirt grooves.
Click to expand...

I wish to correct your correction.

Alox is a trademark and brand of Lubrizol Corporation, a company that makes a range of industrial lubricants. Many years ago, perhaps 50, the technical editors at American Rifleman identified one of Lubrizol's products, Alox 2138, as an excellent component for bullet lubricant, specifically in one recipe that was 50% beeswax, 50% Alox 2138. Since then that Alox product has been used in countless lube formulations made by individuals as well as companies large and small. Lee Precision with their Liquid Alox is just one of those companies. And of course large volumes of the original NRA 50:50 lube have been used to fill lube grooves and fired downrange.
It is very popular, but it is also very smoky.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom