Tony Gauthier
CGN Regular
- Location
- Alberta, Canada
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What's your definition of a Precision rifle?
- Thread starter KDX
- Start date
Tony Gauthier
CGN Regular
- Location
- Alberta, Canada
Hotwheels81
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- South of GP
precision at what range?
we talking rifle or cartridge?
a gun that can shoot a round into a 2" bullseye at 600M with a 5min cool down and cleaning in between shot's or a rifle that can hold a 4" spread with 20 rnd's on same target?
to me a bullet that can hit a 24" target at super sonic speed out to 1800M all day long off a solid prone resting position is precision... i like the potential of something like the .375 cheytac (relax its not a propritairy round for cheytac) viking round in a vari-twist barrel mated to a top quality action with proper load development and PDA ballistic software with a top notch 24x or better optic... that should only set you back $25,000cdn all said and done.
we talking rifle or cartridge?
a gun that can shoot a round into a 2" bullseye at 600M with a 5min cool down and cleaning in between shot's or a rifle that can hold a 4" spread with 20 rnd's on same target?
to me a bullet that can hit a 24" target at super sonic speed out to 1800M all day long off a solid prone resting position is precision... i like the potential of something like the .375 cheytac (relax its not a propritairy round for cheytac) viking round in a vari-twist barrel mated to a top quality action with proper load development and PDA ballistic software with a top notch 24x or better optic... that should only set you back $25,000cdn all said and done.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
The rifle that shoots into 2" at 600 from a cool barrel might very well be the same rifle that shoots into 4" once heated up, and both are examples of precision. But precision has nothing to do with power, velocity, or range although these might be attributes sought by a long range marksman. Some of the most precisely built, accurate rifles in the world are rimfires, and at 50 yards nothing can touch them. As for cost, you can have the very best components to build your precision rifle, but if your gunsmith does not understand the intricacies of precision, he cannot build a rifle to its potential regardless of the components at his disposal.
Hotwheels81
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- South of GP
agreed... the original question asked was whats YOUR idea of precision and with a question that is asked as a matter of opinion there is no correct answer just opinion of the person who answers the original question.
as for one hole groups on a target any gun can do it... just keep moveing the paper closer till desired results are achieved.
My target would be to shoot 1/4 inch groups out to 1000 yards, Then I would consider myself to be a precision shooter. I'm not sure if I can do that with my Tikka T3 Tactical but I'm going to try. Unfortunately there are only a couple of ranges in Ontario that are that long.
In my view long distance accuracy is important to be considered as a precision rifle/shooter because of the additional challenges posed by wind, temperature etc. Anyone can do short distances.
In my view long distance accuracy is important to be considered as a precision rifle/shooter because of the additional challenges posed by wind, temperature etc. Anyone can do short distances.
Tony Gauthier
CGN Regular
- Location
- Alberta, Canada
In my view long distance accuracy is important to be considered as a precision rifle/shooter because of the additional challenges posed by wind, temperature etc. Anyone can do short distances
That is what they say until they have tried it!!!!!!
That Tika won't even come close to competing at 100 yards in a real bench rest match. Now don't go jumping all over me I am just telling it like it is. To win a short range match in competition you need to shoot 25 rounds over approximately a 3 hour period and keep all 25 in a .200 or smaller group at 100 yards. This means that most days you are shooting in at least 5 different wind conditions, a change in temperature of 10 -20 degrees, changing humidity, and changing mirage. Now you do this twice at 100 yards and twice more at 200 yards for a two gun match and will likely place in the middle of the pack if you keep all 100 rounds in a .300 group!
That is what they say until they have tried it!!!!!!
That Tika won't even come close to competing at 100 yards in a real bench rest match. Now don't go jumping all over me I am just telling it like it is. To win a short range match in competition you need to shoot 25 rounds over approximately a 3 hour period and keep all 25 in a .200 or smaller group at 100 yards. This means that most days you are shooting in at least 5 different wind conditions, a change in temperature of 10 -20 degrees, changing humidity, and changing mirage. Now you do this twice at 100 yards and twice more at 200 yards for a two gun match and will likely place in the middle of the pack if you keep all 100 rounds in a .300 group!
ok hang onto your hats
a rail gun with barrel and action will cost between a low of used and well used at that of $3000 canuck to a high of $8000 canuck for a new jay young with a bat, double scope mounts and scopes, with rail feet and boxes
and sometimes in the us of a the matches last 10 hours if you have 6 relays about 1 hour and 10 minutes apart
fun stuff though, awaiting my new jay young rail as it will be 2 years from the time of order,
come to calgary this summer and see rail guns in action, and bolts being thrown on the ground in frustration of the wind
Jefferson
a rail gun with barrel and action will cost between a low of used and well used at that of $3000 canuck to a high of $8000 canuck for a new jay young with a bat, double scope mounts and scopes, with rail feet and boxes
and sometimes in the us of a the matches last 10 hours if you have 6 relays about 1 hour and 10 minutes apart
fun stuff though, awaiting my new jay young rail as it will be 2 years from the time of order,
come to calgary this summer and see rail guns in action, and bolts being thrown on the ground in frustration of the wind
Jefferson
Tony Gauthier
CGN Regular
- Location
- Alberta, Canada
Rifle, with the quality of a very expensive micrometer
Set a new unlimited range record of .154 100 yd. 5 shot group on Saturday in match 3! This was with Barts bullets, Lapua brass, S322 powder, and of course a Leupold scope. And after tearing it down (in under 20 minutes) between match 2 (after shooting an embarrasing 1 1/2 in. group) and 3 to tighten the barrel to the action. Maybe I shoot better with a heart rate of about 120!!!!!!
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If you can't just unsling it, go prone and shoot it accurately anywhere, then it doesn't fit my personal definition of a precision rifle.Redman, ...apparenty you do not compete in precision long-distance shooting 
A precision hunting rifle and a precision match rifle are two different things built for two related but very different purposes. Unlimited BR shooters can come up with some pretty funky stuff, but at the heart of it all, they are basically the same actions, triggers and barrels used on all custom rifles. They just remove a few of the human variables.
A precision hunting rifle and a precision match rifle are two different things built for two related but very different purposes. Unlimited BR shooters can come up with some pretty funky stuff, but at the heart of it all, they are basically the same actions, triggers and barrels used on all custom rifles. They just remove a few of the human variables.precision rifle to me means a rifle that can get the job done so to speak, but it takes a good operator to make it work.
Basically a rifle that can be shot cold barrel and dialed in to hit on the first round within it's range, best examples I could come up with are either military snipers or long range hunters, punching paper does not have the same consequences/risk if you mame or miss.
Basically a rifle that can be shot cold barrel and dialed in to hit on the first round within it's range, best examples I could come up with are either military snipers or long range hunters, punching paper does not have the same consequences/risk if you mame or miss.
brenden270
CGN Regular
- Location
- Kootenays BC
My "precision" guns all shoot sub .5" five shot groups at 100 yards with reasonable consistency. If a rifle won't do that with a reasonable amount of handloading and accurizing it gets a new pipe or gets sold. I'm not a benchrest shooter (I've dabbled) but I shoot 30 or so tac matches and club matches as well as high power silhouette every year. I have a goofy ritual I have done for about the last five years... when I think a riflle and handload are up to snuff I set up 20 clays on the target boards at 300 and 400 yards (10 each). Two of my rifle have gone 20/20 on the clays. Three others have gone 17, 17, and 19. All the misses were at 400. I do this on days with no wind with a 20x scope. I've had rifles that I wouldn't waste the time setting up the clays for. They usually got sold. They weren't precision rifles. Guns that will do 75% on the clays hang around and I consider them precision rifles. Very unscientific and highly subjective I know but watching the clay blow up is so much more fun than poking holes in paper (which I do too much of).
My 2cents
Brenden
My 2cents
Brenden
Okay Jeffy,
my goal is to try and beat at least one rail gun in a match, not an agg but match. Will see how my baby sporter can do.
I think I shoot one of the lightest barreled guns out there. Just remember it does not matter how hung you are but how to use it......
Tony, your heart rate never gets racing does it????????
my goal is to try and beat at least one rail gun in a match, not an agg but match. Will see how my baby sporter can do.
I think I shoot one of the lightest barreled guns out there. Just remember it does not matter how hung you are but how to use it......
Tony, your heart rate never gets racing does it????????
Redman, ...apparenty you do not compete in precision long-distance shooting
Although you are correct about my competitive history
, a precision match rifle corresponds pretty much exactly to what I described in my post. I'm not sure that a precision hunting rifle would, considering some of the compromises that have to be made regarding portability. However, I made no mention of hunting rifles...The reason why the above doesn't really fall into my definition is that it's akin to building a catapault like device with a hand-operated lever that sinks basketballs from half court. It's cool to build, tweak, etc. so that it works flawlessly and you can compete with other people to see who can make the best one, but you're not exactly playing basketball
Disclaimer: I'm not pooping on BR shooters - if you like it, don't let my arcane views spoil your fun
The way I see it everyone has there own perception of what a "precision Rifle" is. Whether it's a heavy barrel varmint gun with a big scope on it or a rail gun. Myself I see heavy barrel guns that has had some tuning done to it more of a precision "Rifle" then a rail gun.
The reason why the above doesn't really fall into my definition is that it's akin to building a catapault like device with a hand-operated lever that sinks basketballs from half court. It's cool to build, tweak, etc. so that it works flawlessly and you can compete with other people to see who can make the best one, but you're not exactly playing basketball
Disclaimer: I'm not pooping on BR shooters - if you like it, don't let my arcane views spoil your fun
Need to clear up some misconceptions. People really need to understand the following point as it pertains to competition BR rifles. All an unlimited BR (or LV, HV, Hunter class etc) rifle does is get you on the playing field with other BR rifles. (ie; don't enter a Nascar race with an off road vehicle).
Granted, it sure seems like an equipment race to the outsider, but I can assure you that BR at all levels is still a shooters game. Having a rifle that shoots .050" tighter than the other guy won't help when you miss a wind switch and plant one .5" out of the group.
You can't just build it, or buy it, with the plan of beating on everyone in sight. There is no small group machine that you can crank the handle on and start winning. You still need to read the wind like everyone else, you need to be able to load perfect ammo, you still need to handle the gun in a repeatable fashion, you have to keep it in tune for the whole weekend. Plus dozens of other small things that would take forever to type.
The upside is that the once you start sinking them in the same hole, it is very addictive and rewarding, and you will keep coming back for more.
