Whats your most accurate bpcr at 300 to 400 yards

[gunlaker]

What do you find is the longest accurate range limits of you 32-40win and 38-55?
I'm guessing not windy where you shoot in BC?

All of my long range and midrange match shooting was done in Wyoming, Colorado, and Phoenix. Colorado in particular was always very windy. Often 20-30 mph. Once while in the pits we had a target frame snap in half on a gust. The long range championship I mentioned with my 45-90 had two super strong dust devils that blew through that picked up everyones range equipment including spotting scope and blow tgem down range. The matches I've won in B.C. have been silhouette matches at Heffley Creek where it's not nearly as windy, but it can be twitchy. I find the wind to be what makes shooting these rifles really interesting. At one of the midrange matches I shot in the states one of the guys who has NRA records actually gave up due to the extreme conditions. My 40-65 shot the second highest target at 600 that day.

I've never shot my 32-40's or 38-55's past 200m. I do have a 38-50 that I still haven't got shooting well, but if I ever get it sorted out I might try it at silhouette.

My days of shooting the big mid and long range matches in the states ended during covid and I've given up heading over the border for now. I just shoot the Heffley Creek matches these days.

CHRIS.

 

[gunlaker]

Oh yeah I definitely wipe between shots. Silhouette I wipe with two damp patches. Midrange and long range I use 3 damp patches between shots, but sometimes as many as 5 between shots! I got that advice from a really talented Wyoming shooter named Jimbo Terry. He once told me that if you start seeing a little extra vertical dispersion at long range just wipe with more patches, even if they look clean after three. It definitely works, but I'm not sure exactly what's going on. I've had the fortune of shooting with some of the best guys in the long range black powder world (Well America at least). They were all super kind people that gave me a ton of little tips to help me along.

With respect to bullets I cast all of my own. You never really know exactly what bullets these guns are going to like so it's best to have a lot of miles to try . For a while I was a member of the mold of the month club but have now settled on Buffalo Arms money bullet molds for all of my 40 and 45 cal rifles. I also use good known alloys, no range scrap or anything. Just to keep things consistent. Same with bullet lube. Dgl for bpcr and Alberta Schuetzen Lube for my smaller cartridges. Years ago I made my own bug my scores went up when switching to spg and later DGL.

 

[gunlaker]

Oh and of course those ten shot sub-MOA groups were all shot on BlueBird days with nothing more than the gentlest breeze.

 

[Valiant]

Thats my kind of shoot. I am more into challenging myself and having fun than I am about score. Some will say “there’s no fun in losing” and that is true when the contest is not overly challenging. No fun shooting a 36” target at 50 yards but hit a thumbtack offhand at 25, Thats fun and it’s not as discouraging when you miss a challenging target.

I love shooting these pre 1898 guns. Cowboy action and side matches is for most of my posse. About friendship and fun. We all practice and want to do good. Everyone shares information and tries to help each other.
There are different side matches for different types of guns.
The Quigley I haven't done before but plan on doing this year. I think you shoot it standing up. I think they cheat a bit and lean on tall cross sticks that club provides. I think the target or shiloette is out around 350 to 400 yards.
We are just south of Calgary. Bigger shoots are 3 to 4 days long. Free camping on site. But it is cowboy action so two single action revolvers , pistol cartridge lever gun and shotgun required. PM me if you are interested.
BTW your old Fords sound cool. I love old iron. My forum handle Valiant is from old MOPAR Valiant car.

 

[Valiant]

Oh yeah I definitely wipe between shots. Silhouette I wipe with two damp patches. Midrange and long range I use 3 damp patches between shots, but sometimes as many as 5 between shots! I got that advice from a really talented Wyoming shooter named Jimbo Terry. He once told me that if you start seeing a little extra vertical dispersion at long range just wipe with more patches, even if they look clean after three. It definitely works, but I'm not sure exactly what's going on. I've had the fortune of shooting with some of the best guys in the long range black powder world (Well America at least). They were all super kind people that gave me a ton of little tips to help me along.

With respect to bullets I cast all of my own. You never really know exactly what bullets these guns are going to like so it's best to have a lot of miles to try . For a while I was a member of the mold of the month club but have now settled on Buffalo Arms money bullet molds for all of my 40 and 45 cal rifles. I also use good known alloys, no range scrap or anything. Just to keep things consistent. Same with bullet lube. Dgl for bpcr and Alberta Schuetzen Lube for my smaller cartridges. Years ago I made my own bug my scores went up when switching to spg and later DGL.

Did you play around with trying to get your gun to shoot reasonably accurate without cleaning between shots?

Example I only have one 40 cal mold. The bore riding olive is a bit undersized. Bullets come out of the mold about 408.
I'm not sure about different diameters on the bore riding olive or the bullet itself. How this effects dirty barrel accuracy?
I'm thinking if the bore riding nose of the bullet fit the bore better it would shoot more accurate?
I haven't played around with grease wads either. They should help with the black powder?
40 cal pretty dead in Canada to buy molds, etc.
I can't locate a 408 h&I sizing die so I'm using a 457 die just to apply lube. How did you lube your Bullets?

 

[gunlaker]

I haven't ever tried shooting black powder without cleaning between shots, except in a Marlin 1894 Cowboy in 45 Colt. It worked pretty well for shooting at 50 and 100, but that was about all I tried. When I started shooting bp I started with a blow tube but then read about wiping between shots and it worked a lot better for me. In silhouette it seems that most people blow tube, but at the various mid and long range range shoots I've been to in the states I don't remember anyone using one. It's possible I just didn't see it, but it seemed to me that everyone was wiping. I more or less copied them on all of these details

 

[flintyboom]

I'm still working on figuring out my Shiloh sharps that I got last year, but before that I had a Pedersoli 45-70 rolling block. This was my best 5 shot group from bench sticks at 300 meters with MVA soule sights. Oh and this is with a Lyman postell bullet lubed with SPG.

 

[flintyboom]

Here's the pic

 

[MTM]

Been hand loading for 40+ years. A few years ago decided I needed to know about bpcr guns. Bought a Pedersoli 45/90 and started loading. Did a ton of reading before starting, had issues. A bunch more reading and experimenting. Finally got down pretty much moa at close ranges. Really fun and way more to it than you’d think. Sold the 34” and have a 30” hunter now that I might take in the bush. Way easier to keep black powder guns clean than people think. Sorry for being a bit off topic, just wanted to say how much fun BP guns are.

 

[gunlaker]

Here's the pic

Very nice shooting. That was done with aperture sights too or have you scoped your rifle since I saw it last?

Chris.

 

[gunlaker]

Been hand loading for 40+ years. A few years ago decided I needed to know about bpcr guns. Bought a Pedersoli 45/90 and started loading. Did a ton of reading before starting, had issues. A bunch more reading and experimenting. Finally got down pretty much moa at close ranges. Really fun and way more to it than you’d think. Sold the 34” and have a 30” hunter now that I might take in the bush. Way easier to keep black powder guns clean than people think. Sorry for being a bit off topic, just wanted to say how much fun BP guns are.

Yeah they sure are fun to shoot. By the way do you anneal your cases? I assume you are using Starline 45-90 brass? Annealing those cases made the biggest difference in my 45-90 Shiloh's accuracy. I anneal new brass twice before using. 6 seconds each time spinning in a propane torch flame.

 

[MTM]

Good morning, yes I annealed my new starline. Got that from researching. Haha Sizing, lube and wads/cards. Took a while to get it all working. My little drop tubes were put aside and a really big one was fabbed up. OK might have been a bit Quigley inspired. Absolute ton of fun.

 

[flintyboom]

Yeah. My target was with aperture sights.

 

[Valiant]

Here's the pic

Newspaper wad?

 

[Valiant]

Been hand loading for 40+ years. A few years ago decided I needed to know about bpcr guns. Bought a Pedersoli 45/90 and started loading. Did a ton of reading before starting, had issues. A bunch more reading and experimenting. Finally got down pretty much moa at close ranges. Really fun and way more to it than you’d think. Sold the 34” and have a 30” hunter now that I might take in the bush. Way easier to keep black powder guns clean than people think. Sorry for being a bit off topic, just wanted to say how much fun BP guns are.

Where you cleaning between shots?
Reason I'm asking is I used to have 40/90, 45/90,45/120. All these big volume cases I could only get accuracy by cleaning between shots.

 

[Valiant]

Yeah they sure are fun to shoot. By the way do you anneal your cases? I assume you are using Starline 45-90 brass? Annealing those cases made the biggest difference in my 45-90 Shiloh's accuracy. I anneal new brass twice before using. 6 seconds each time spinning in a propane torch flame.

How do you think annealing helped?
Less bullet base deformation or sizing when seating the bullets? More consistent neck tension?

 

[flintyboom]

Newspaper wad?

It's a little disc of newspaper between the bullet and the wad. Keeps it from sticking to the bullet.

 

[Murray 3-D]

How do you think annealing helped?
Less bullet base deformation or sizing when seating the bullets? More consistent neck tension?

Curious about this as well...... thought annealing was solely about extending brass life.

 

[gunlaker]

How do you think annealing helped?
Less bullet base deformation or sizing when seating the bullets? More consistent neck tension?

I think annealing makes he biggest difference if you are using neck tension. A lot of time I use slip fit bullets with zero neck tension, but some of my best 45-90 loads use a really light neck tension of about 0.001". The Starline 45-90 brass is so hard that you can't really get a good light neck tension. I anneal it so it's quite soft.

I think annealing also helps the case seal the chamber more quickly, even if using zero neck tension. I think you see more consistent velocity numbers resulting in less vertical at longer distances.

Annealing doesn't always make a difference, but in my 45-90 when I first got it, it shot very poorly. Decent core groups but some rally bad flyers. I thought maybe the barrel was bad. Annealing took away the flyers and the first test with 14 shots had a velocity SD of only 3.6 fps.

Oh and someone was talking about newsprint wads. I always use them for match shooting because they supposedly prevent the LDPE wads from sticking to the bullet base. I'm not 100% sure they work like that, but they don't hurt. I think I've shot a tiny bit better since I started using them, but I'm not 100% sure

Chris.

 

[MTM]

Sorry I’m slow getting back. Yes one patch down the bore between shots. Far from an expert here, kinda feeling my way in the dark. Haha The Pedersoli barrels are extremely smooth and easy to keep clean and shooting.