When a Scope Overwhelms a Hunting Rifle Aesthetically....

So I have a maple stocked, octagon barrel bolt rifle showing up inn under two weeks. I do like the lines on it for some odd reason, so vodka and impulse win again. ;)

So that comes to the optics end, i want to purchase my rings at the same time and although it is a 7mm RM - I don't know if I can fathom the look of high rings and a 50mm objective lens sitting on a rifle that looks like that. What do you all think that a 50mm buys you for time at dusk or dawn over a 40mm scope?

I have a VXL sitting on my synthetic stock ugly knockabout rifle but never thought it truly made that much more of a difference at twilight..... Will more than likely stay within the 3i series and would still like to take full advantage of the 7's reach out and touch them trajectory.

Yes, I know it is a very odd rig but :runaway:

Dirk

View attachment 150498

You can never go wrong with an octagon barrel imo!
If that VXL is a 4.5-14 with a B&C or varmint reticle, I'll swap you for a VX3 4.5-14 x 40 B&C :)
I like the VXL's cuz I can run em low.
 
I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum and I'll go against the grain here, I have a 2.5-10x50mm Prostaff 7 on my 9.3x62, I wouldn't change anything or go smaller.

I do have 40mm scopes on other rifles and they work well, but I don't hunt them much.
 
So I have a maple stocked, octagon barrel bolt rifle showing up inn under two weeks. I do like the lines on it for some odd reason, so vodka and impulse win again. ;)

So that comes to the optics end, i want to purchase my rings at the same time and although it is a 7mm RM - I don't know if I can fathom the look of high rings and a 50mm objective lens sitting on a rifle that looks like that. What do you all think that a 50mm buys you for time at dusk or dawn over a 40mm scope?

I have a VXL sitting on my synthetic stock ugly knockabout rifle but never thought it truly made that much more of a difference at twilight..... Will more than likely stay within the 3i series and would still like to take full advantage of the 7's reach out and touch them trajectory.

Yes, I know it is a very odd rig but :runaway:

Dirk

View attachment 150498


This is an interesting read,... not too many people know this....

SHORT ANSWER:
In practical terms, the 50mm scope will be brighter than a 40mm scope only under a combination of the highest magnifications and the very darkest conditions. Otherwise, a 50mm scope is delivering more light than your eye can use. In addition, a 50mm scope will pull your head up off the stock and also be heavier as well as more expensive than a similar model in 40mm.

The big objective is a hard myth to bust because we have become so conditioned to bigger is better. On a riflescope a bigger objective does not always guarantee a brighter image. Here's why...

LONG ANSWER:
The scope:
The exit pupil on a riflescope is the actual width of the beam of light that leaves the eyepiece. If the beam of light that leaves the eyepiece is larger than the opening in your eye, the riflescope is delivering more light than your eye can use. You can calculate the width of this beam of light (exit pupil) in millimeters on your riflescope by dividing objective size by the magnification setting. A 3-9x50 set at 5x produces a 10mm exit pupil (50 divided by 5). A 3-9x50 set at 8x produces a 6.25mm exit pupil (50 divided by eight) . The higher the magnification setting, the smaller the exit pupil (beam of light) your scope produces.

YOUR EYE:
In order for your eye to open to its maximum, you must be exposed to conditions of total darkenss for at least thirty minutes. Most people do not hunt under these situations, but for the sake of argument, let's say that they do. Under these conditions, the average widest a young persons eye can open is about 7mm (some individuals 8mm), but most folks who hit their forties will find their eyes can open no more than 5 or 6mm. By age 50, you're doing good at 5mm. It's part of the aging process.

According to the math, if your eyes can, and are, open to 7mm, a 3-9x50 delivers more light than your eye can use at magnifications below 7x. For eyes that are open to 6mm, magnifications below 8x waste light. For eyes that can only open to 5mm, magnifications below 10x waste light - in other words, all magnifications on a 3-9x50 when your eyes are only open to 5mm, deliver more light than your eye can use.

Since very few people hunt under total darkness, they will not be shooting with eyes that have opened to 7mm. Under typical low light situations, your eyes will be open to 4 - 6mm at best.

Once again, do the math. For eyes that are open to 5mm - typical for low light adapted eyes - a 40mm riflescope is still delivering more light than your eye can use at magnifications below 8x. Since most deer are shot at much lower magnifications than 8x, a 3-9x40 will do anything you need to do in terms of low light shooting. If you want to spend more money, you are dollars and performance ahead to invest in a better quality 3-9x40, rather than jump to a 3-9x50. Quality will have a greater impact on performance.
 
Invest in binoculars

Agreed. The scope is just an aiming device. A good set of binos or a spotter should do the heavy work. Plus, you can use them when you're not hunting.

I felt overscoped with my 3-9x40, and went to a 1.5-5x20. I'm much happier with that, though now I'm thinking about experimenting with peep sights.
 
You can never go wrong with an octagon barrel imo!
If that VXL is a 4.5-14 with a B&C or varmint reticle, I'll swap you for a VX3 4.5-14 x 40 B&C :)
I like the VXL's cuz I can run em low.

That's what she is alright but it's securely mounted and spot on with the beater ought six that needs to earn its keep in the ugly going and stuff..... ;)

Otherwise I'd be shooting you a pm!

Dirk

View attachment 150716
 
This is an interesting read,... not too many people know this....

SHORT ANSWER:
In practical terms, the 50mm scope will be brighter than a 40mm scope only under a combination of the highest magnifications and the very darkest conditions. Otherwise, a 50mm scope is delivering more light than your eye can use. In addition, a 50mm scope will pull your head up off the stock and also be heavier as well as more expensive than a similar model in 40mm.

The big objective is a hard myth to bust because we have become so conditioned to bigger is better. On a riflescope a bigger objective does not always guarantee a brighter image. Here's why...

LONG ANSWER:
The scope:
The exit pupil on a riflescope is the actual width of the beam of light that leaves the eyepiece. If the beam of light that leaves the eyepiece is larger than the opening in your eye, the riflescope is delivering more light than your eye can use. You can calculate the width of this beam of light (exit pupil) in millimeters on your riflescope by dividing objective size by the magnification setting. A 3-9x50 set at 5x produces a 10mm exit pupil (50 divided by 5). A 3-9x50 set at 8x produces a 6.25mm exit pupil (50 divided by eight) . The higher the magnification setting, the smaller the exit pupil (beam of light) your scope produces.

YOUR EYE:
In order for your eye to open to its maximum, you must be exposed to conditions of total darkenss for at least thirty minutes. Most people do not hunt under these situations, but for the sake of argument, let's say that they do. Under these conditions, the average widest a young persons eye can open is about 7mm (some individuals 8mm), but most folks who hit their forties will find their eyes can open no more than 5 or 6mm. By age 50, you're doing good at 5mm. It's part of the aging process.

According to the math, if your eyes can, and are, open to 7mm, a 3-9x50 delivers more light than your eye can use at magnifications below 7x. For eyes that are open to 6mm, magnifications below 8x waste light. For eyes that can only open to 5mm, magnifications below 10x waste light - in other words, all magnifications on a 3-9x50 when your eyes are only open to 5mm, deliver more light than your eye can use.

Since very few people hunt under total darkness, they will not be shooting with eyes that have opened to 7mm. Under typical low light situations, your eyes will be open to 4 - 6mm at best.

Once again, do the math. For eyes that are open to 5mm - typical for low light adapted eyes - a 40mm riflescope is still delivering more light than your eye can use at magnifications below 8x. Since most deer are shot at much lower magnifications than 8x, a 3-9x40 will do anything you need to do in terms of low light shooting. If you want to spend more money, you are dollars and performance ahead to invest in a better quality 3-9x40, rather than jump to a 3-9x50. Quality will have a greater impact on performance.

That's all fine and dandy and fits well into your theory that a scope above 40mm is useless, but let's assume for a moment that some of us hunt with scopes that have a higher upper magnification than 9x. Then all of what you stated goes out the window. :)
 
Aesthetically, I dislike objectives larger than 40mm on 1" tube scopes, they do appear better balanced with 30mm or 34mm tubes; but if 50 is bad, then 56 is hideous. The only way a big objective with a 1" tube can look any worse is if it is contoured to the shape of the barrel. Just for a laugh though I mounted my 4-16X PM II (for those not familiar with it this as a physically large scope) on my little 14.5" AR. Darned if I didn't like it.
 
Aesthetically, I dislike objectives larger than 40mm on 1" tube scopes, they do appear better balanced with 30mm or 34mm tubes; but if 50 is bad, then 56 is hideous. The only way a big objective with a 1" tube can look any worse is if it is contoured to the shape of the barrel. Just for a laugh though I mounted my 4-16X PM II (for those not familiar with it this as a physically large scope) on my little 14.5" AR. Darned if I didn't like it.


:needPics:

:needPics:

:needPics:
 
Aesthetically, I dislike objectives larger than 40mm on 1" tube scopes, they do appear better balanced with 30mm or 34mm tubes; but if 50 is bad, then 56 is hideous. The only way a big objective with a 1" tube can look any worse is if it is contoured to the shape of the barrel. Just for a laugh though I mounted my 4-16X PM II (for those not familiar with it this as a physically large scope) on my little 14.5" AR. Darned if I didn't like it.

We sure do care alot about the cosmetic balance of a rifle around here it seems... Reminds me of an old song (or one I just made up):

♬ ♬ Function over form! Function over form! The only ugly rifle is the one that can't perform! ♬ ♬
 
That's all fine and dandy and fits well into your theory that a scope above 40mm is useless, but let's assume for a moment that some of us hunt with scopes that have a higher upper magnification than 9x. Then all of what you stated goes out the window. :)

That's not my theory bearkilr,.... somebody waaayy smarter than me figured that out,..lol,... I just stumbled across it one day while doing some scope research,.. it all "kinda" makes sense and is a great theory but I'm not sure it is 100% right,.... however, I will say that a 40mm objective on a somewhat decent scope will give you plenty of light for shooting during "legal hunting hours". I have a 3-9x40 VX1 Leupold that gives me plenty of light to shoot well after legal shooting time.
 
Sometimes you have to decide whether you're going to shoot it or look at it. If the big objectives and 30 mm tubes do the job for you, and its a job that needs doing you'll get used to looking at it.
 
What do you all think that a 50mm buys you for time at dusk or dawn over a 40mm scope?

Twilight periods are one of the most exiting times of the day, also very important be be prepared. With all things equal, with the exception of the objective lens dia., the 50mm will gather more light in/for the exit pupil. Personally, I have two rifles equipped with 56mm objective lens from one of the finest optic makers in Europe. The purpose: twilight times! I love beautiful guns but they must be practical. Final suggestion, utilize a scope that will aid you during these time periods; and don't concern yourself to much about the "Barbie" fashion appearance.
 
After years of large scopes i have now switched to a leupold 1x4 vx11. The complete rig is lighter & has better balance , no longer so top heavy. I usually carry it on 2x, & use 4x for targets. The rifle is a maple stocked x bolt & the whole rig weighs just over 7 #. Also tied with an old sako as the most accurate rifles ive ever owned( out of maybe 35 rifles).
 
That's not my theory bearkilr,.... somebody waaayy smarter than me figured that out,..lol,... I just stumbled across it one day while doing some scope research,.. it all "kinda" makes sense and is a great theory but I'm not sure it is 100% right,.... however, I will say that a 40mm objective on a somewhat decent scope will give you plenty of light for shooting during "legal hunting hours". I have a 3-9x40 VX1 Leupold that gives me plenty of light to shoot well after legal shooting time.

It's not a theory and you're quite accurate in what you posted, except you're restricting yourself to a 3-9x scope, and therein lies the problem. Let's take a Leupold 4.5-14x40 for example. At 12 power, you have less than a 3.3mm exit pupil. With a Zeiss 3-12x56 for example, you have a 4.6mm exit pupil. Big difference, not to mention superior coatings. It's really hard to explain unless you compare them. One thing many forget is that you'll lose sight of the reticle long before the sight picture. An illuminated reticle is almost a must for very low light shooting, or very heavy crosshairs.
As for proper cheek weld, there is such a thing as mounting a scope too low, just as there is for mounting it too high. I have a couple of rifles where 56mm scopes fit perfectly for me. And on rifles where they sit too high, risers can be added to the stock.
The weight issue is something that can't be changed.
A smaller scope with less glass and metal will always be lighter, but those hunters requiring minimal weight, as in mountain hunting or spot and stalk, rarely hunt until last light anyhow.
 
People learn about exit pupil size,(and lord help us all if they learn how to divide objective lens diameter by the magnification), but seldom seem to realize that the exit pupil isn't of equal brightness across its diameter. Due to vignetting the edge of the exit pupil is crap. An exit pupil that is bigger than your eye's pupil can open isn't wasting light it's throwing away the crap so you can utilize the brighter inside.

A 40 mm objective might be a better all round compromise, but not everyone is interested in compromising. Or maybe their idea of a good compromise is carrying a few more ounces in the daytime in return for all night performance. Fact is that in much of the world night hunting is a fact of life, and even in North America there is plenty of predator and pig hunting done at night. Canada is such a drop in the bucket that we're lucky they bother selling us scopes. It's not an accident that some of the finest scopes in the world have huge objectives and they aren't making them because all the buyers are idiots.
 
Pounder should chime in here. Once upon a time he supplemented his income by shooting wolves over bait by moonlight, using an ancient Hensoldt fixed 8X60. I don't think I've seen a modern rifle scope with a larger objective, and even the big dollar Euro scopes seem to have now topped out at 56mm, which is still pretty big.
 
Back
Top Bottom