When did RC German Milsurps start showing up in Canada?

Brookwood

Brookwood

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I purchased a RC K98K from a non collector in Northern Saskatchewan who said he 'bought it from a magazine add in the mid '70s". That got me thinking - When did RC German milsurps start showing up for sale in Canada?

Thanks in advance,

Brookwood
 
RC is very advanced time-warping technology. I have seen in person several "bring-backs" and "I bought it from German officer who was able to keep it" and they were RCs. Answering your question I would guess post 1991 when USSR collapse facilitated surplus sales all over the world.
 
Technically there could have possibly been some from before the Iron Curtain fell, such as Vietnam captures, etc. But those would be very small in number and difficult to prove without documentation. Buy the rifle not the story.
 
Eaglelord17 said:
Buy the rifle not the story.
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Exactly. The archivist in me however, always has to ask 'how did you come across this?' When I bought the rifle off the farmer and he told me what he did, I asked him if he was sure, he said yes and then I just politely thanked him and went on my way...

So the consensus is RC German milsurps began coming into Canada (en mass) after 1991?
 
Brookwood said:
Exactly. The archivist in me however, always has to ask 'how did you come across this?' When I bought the rifle off the farmer and he told me what he did, I asked him if he was sure, he said yes and then I just politely thanked him and went on my way...

So the consensus is RC German milsurps began coming into Canada (en mass) after 1991?
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I wonder if they started before that? As the Iron Curtain falling really never affected us as Canadians (we have had TOZ, Vostok, Margolin, Lada etc way before 1991).
 
there have been surplus Mausers coming in since 1945 . 98% are not vet bring backs. All the European countries sold them at one time or another.
 
Lot's of Nazi love in this country, just go to a gun show, you will see all kinds of the stuff
 
gaff said:
there have been surplus Mausers coming in since 1945 . 98% are not vet bring backs. All the European countries sold them at one time or another.
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Yes but the Russian Capture Mausers (or any other captured war inventory) were not sold to us dirty capitalists during the cold war.. maybe moved around within the soviet block, gifted to smaller Communist countries.
 
Donny Fenn1 said:
I wonder if they started before that? As the Iron Curtain falling really never affected us as Canadians (we have had TOZ, Vostok, Margolin, Lada etc way before 1991).
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I trust what Horilka writes as he is meticulous in his research, but I too wonder if small numbers of RC weapons made it into Canada prior to 1991. However, I am doubtful that the sale of any milsurps from the arsenals to the West would have been sanctioned by Soviet authorities. That's just my speculation.

What led me to pose this question is that there are some pieces I've encountered from long time collectors (fellows in their 70's and up) who own/owned examples of German firearms that have similar characteristics to Russian Capture - electro penciled bolts, plumb/gold bolts, force matched parts, shellac stocks, ect. I even examined an MG34 in a museum vault that had a hodge-podge bolt that was electro-penciled in a similar script to those found on RC firearms, and it had been in the collection for decades.

Is it within the realm of possibility -I'm theorizing here - that some of this could have been done domestically (North America) back in the '50s-'70s when these were relatively cheap, numerous and not considered collectible? If a wholesale supplier bought a pile of German arms from say the U.S. or CDN Govt. ( think of Lever's warehouse of SVT-40 crates), and just mixed parts to make cheap shooters? Could this account for some of the stuff in long term collections that looks like RC, but was here before RCs hit the North American market? Or have I just been in the garage too long working on my Buick with the door closed?
 
I wouldn't discount the possibility that some came in with the Syrian and Egyptian stuff courtesy of the Israelis.
 
john@ said:
Yes but the Russian Capture Mausers (or any other captured war inventory) were not sold to us dirty capitalists during the cold war.. maybe moved around within the soviet block, gifted to smaller Communist countries.
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Sorry I think thats wrong , Czech, East German ,Poland, Ukraine,Yugoslavia. All sold there Mauser surplus before Russia.
there is also the likely hood that the last batch is from the Ukraine and not Russia.
Holland,Denmark,Norway France all had vast stocks of War repatriation materials for there disposal.
 
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Brookwood said:
I trust what Horilka writes as he is meticulous in his research, but I too wonder if small numbers of RC weapons made it into Canada prior to 1991. However, I am doubtful that the sale of any milsurps from the arsenals to the West would have been sanctioned by Soviet authorities. That's just my speculation.

What led me to pose this question is that there are some pieces I've encountered from long time collectors (fellows in their 70's and up) who own/owned examples of German firearms that have similar characteristics to Russian Capture - electro penciled bolts, plumb/gold bolts, force matched parts, shellac stocks, ect. I even examined an MG34 in a museum vault that had a hodge-podge bolt that was electro-penciled in a similar script to those found on RC firearms, and it had been in the collection for decades.

Is it within the realm of possibility -I'm theorizing here - that some of this could have been done domestically (North America) back in the '50s-'70s when these were relatively cheap, numerous and not considered collectible? If a wholesale supplier bought a pile of German arms from say the U.S. or CDN Govt. ( think of Lever's warehouse of SVT-40 crates), and just mixed parts to make cheap shooters? Could this account for some of the stuff in long term collections that looks like RC, but was here before RCs hit the North American market? Or have I just been in the garage too long working on my Buick with the door closed?
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I did not do a research on this. It's just my opinion based on facts I know. USSR did not sell milsurplus, neither does Russia. Their laws don't allow this. What you see with laser etched TT-33s, MN snipers and some SKSs is couple of greasy hands companies like Molot putting "hunting rifle/ sport weapon" markings on milsurplus and selling small batches abroad. This is not country selling but couple of crooks that have "special connections". Unlike other countries Russia as country does not sell, they need surplus to send "humanitarian help" to plenty of conflicts around the world.

P.S. Don't forget that EP/engraving on some firearms was used by some nations including Nazi Germany and Finland during WW2, as well as re-bluing of certain parts of serviced captured weapon. And by several Eastern block countries after WW2. I don't know when Yugoslavia started selling or when Poland and Romania and Bulgaria did, but probably in late 1980x.
 
gaff said:
Sorry I think thats wrong , Czech, East German ,Poland, Ukraine,Yugoslavia. All sold there Mauser surplus before Russia.
there is also the likely hood that the last batch is from the Ukraine and not Russia.
Holland,Denmark,Norway France all had vast stocks of War repatriation materials for there disposal.
Click to expand...

You could be right, I'm just assuming that military arms would not have been sold to the west by the Soviet nations during the cold war.
 
MiG25 said:
I wouldn't discount the possibility that some came in with the Syrian and Egyptian stuff courtesy of the Israelis.
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So far I think this is the most plausible theory. Years ago, before Russian SKSs were coming in in large numbers (2002ish) I had one that came in that way, even had an Arabic rack number on the butt in white paint.
 
Is there a possibility that black marketeers could have fenced chunks of RC weapons through other countries/false documents, much earlier than legitimate sales were made?

Never read anything specific about weapons being moved, but there is a rather interesting story of Soviet rocket engines being sold to the US that makes me believe it's possible.
 
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