When do you stop increasing powder charge??

Plinking - load whatever you feel like using and go fling bullets at whatever you call a target.

Long range competition - you need to be driving what ever high BC bullet works best as fast as you can accurately get it or else your just paying to plink.
 
Gunneegoogoo said:
Ya, you're about right.

I'm 99% confident about not blowing anything up (given the dude on snipershide that was shooting 48 freakin grains of Varget), but shortening my brass life by 80%, or my barrel life.....that's a real concern....
Click to expand...

Why the start low and work up is the cardinal rule in loading... so much changes and varies but as long as you understand what a cliff looks like... you aren't likely to fall off too often :)

yes, there are some insane loads spouted on the internet as "safe"... oh well, Darwin theories have their place even in the modern world...

Barrel break in is a nice big juicy topic for another post... I will just say that your barrel WILL change in the coming hundred or two rds. The bore condition will settle down and your load tuning will stabilise. I have never found accurate velocity to be higher after this "seasoning". Right now, you are in the fastest, smoothest state you bore will ever be... figure out where the fence posts are then tweak in the future when the barrel changes... and it will a few times in its lifespan.

Accuracy will not change much... speeds will... loads definitely will..... and then it will stabilise and you can run it hard for a long while until the next change....

Fun, fun, fun...

Jerry
 
The 48gr guy wasn't really deserving of a Darwin award....although one might think he should. He's seems like a real humble guy and worked up slow, but saw no signs at all. When he hit 48gr (maybe 45 should've been a red flag??) he asked, very respectfully.

He got lots of good feedback and how hot he was running. I think he was about 3000fps out of a 24" barrel!!! EEEEEESSSH!!!!

-J.
 
Just because you can doesn't mean you should...

Anyone that is careful on the safety side of loading will know there is no free lunch and will load accordingly, comparing to known data. In the 48gr case, there would have been plenty of warning signs that the reloader should have noticed and heeded... now if he had H4350 in the Varget can, sure (why? that is an entirely different story) ... but if it is Varget, you will know if loading that much behind a 185gr anything.... nothing safe about it.

The fact that has knows his speed and still runs that load puts into question his decision making process. Asking if Russian Roulette is a good or bad game to play... really doesn't change the danger involved.

You will be shocked at the level of performance some bring to a match... unbelieveable, insane, etc... you bet but some feel if their gun doesn't blow up and they can extract the case, it has to be ok....

How about a 308 that outperforms a 300WM with 230gr bullets? how about loads so hot, you just toss the palma brass after each firing? If you can dream it up, someone has likely already pushed well past that....

Most modern actions are stressed to survive a kaboom close to double magnum pressures at least ONCE... doesn't mean it is safe to play anywhere near this.

There are even some who have taken to the fine art of alchemy and are mixing powders for that "special" burn rate....YIKES....

Darwin lives on...

Jerry
 
I hear you Jer, loud and clear, and you'll never catch me doing it - but this guy was really genuine, wasn't being a hillbilly. He reports all the "pertinent negatives" of no marks, no bolt lift, not flattening, no explosion..... and rather naively/innocently made his way up to that.... something that I'm 99% sure I wouldn't have done, but without all of your guidance I dunno, maybe I would've????

FYI - I loaded some up at 41.8 last night - just to see!!

-J.
 
GGG,

Great thread, good questions, and confusing topic.

About Lawyerized loads...they aren't necessarily. If you're looking for max accuracy or you have a known "hot load" you re-work your load when using a different lot of powder or primers. There are many who believe that the powder used in a 20+yr old manual may not behave the exact same way as most of the powder produced last week(ie 20yr old batch of H4350 vs 1 month old H4350). Second: equipment has gotten better. Piezo measurements in PSI are replacing Copper Units(which was derived from measuring copper pellets crushed in a special action) this newer method has proved some old loads unsafe.

Options, you have many. One of which is not to get stuck on using a certain powder or primer. I've moved from keeping 2 types of powder on hand to 5. W748 is easy to meter, RL-15 keeps giving me great accuracy, RL-19 hasn't done much for me yet but I am moving to some heavier bullets, 4895 for lighter loads, and H414 for velocity. Why? Because when I switched bullets and bought a brand new manual H414 gave top velocities in their testing for 7-08 so rather than move past the book into Voodoo with RL-15 I tried H414 which gave book or better velocity with book loads. In other words there aren't many reasons to move past book values(not saying I haven't done it, pet loads with 1 rifle are over) if your not happy with your results at book max try a different powder or primer.

I use my chrony for ladder testing and all load development, it has shown me some things about my loads and loadings and even done the proverbial drop off in gains. I also develop loads the way Jerry outlines on his website and using a chrony has saved me lots of bullets and powder by knowing there's no reason to fire all those rounds that are way slower than my goal yet still do a diligent work up.

I have friends that require a little reading between the lines and with random info on the internet it can be hard to do. You don't know for certain if the 48gr guy is being 100% truthful vs 100%BS...a troll. I look for details and info that is useable and agrees with accepted principles.

Stay safe = keep shooting

Have fun,

Willy
 
I have personally locked up a rifle with a nice puff of smoke with MY load but 2 lots of the "same" powder purchased a few months apart.. that was scary.

Assume nothing, test everything and ALWAYS work up when changing lot of ANY component.

Jerry

PS were you aware there are at least TWO powders bottled for what we call VARGET????
 
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fwiw, I use 47gr of Varget with Amax 155's out of a 28" barrel. I worked up to that load, it works for me. Zero warning signs.
 
Not different... BLENDED.

This is Aussie powder and we don't get the same stuff they use over there.

Fun, fun, fun...

Jerry

PS, I think they call it 2204 and there is A, B and there might even be a C.
 
I know it's been a couple weeks since anyone's been to this thread but I finally got my free Saturday to shoot my ladder test for my .308.
I'm using 165gn hornady sst, on imr4064 with once fired Winchester nato brass, and federal 210 primers. I loaded in half grain increments starting at 42 and up to 47.5gn.
Seeing as how the nato brass is supposed to have a smaller case volume and I was definitely compressing the last few rounds I was expecting pressure signs below the Hogdon listed max of 46.3gns but I made it all the way to the end with no troubles on bolt lift,no flattened primers. Only possible sign I saw was the primer flowing into the firing pin hole but I kind of expected that because I see that on all factory rounds I've shot through both of my Remington's.
The other thing I noted was I didn't reach the velocity listed for the max load until I reached the 47.5 gn rounds. Hogdon predicted a velocity of 2767 at 46.3C but the two rounds I fired at 47.5 gn chronied at 2761 and 2750.
Would those velocities mean I'm not over pressure? This is out of a 20" barrel btw.

On a side note the rounds between the 45 and 47.5 charges had a 2" vertical spread with one shot that I probably pulled that went way low on one ladder test. The second ladder test put those same 6 charges in a 5" vertical spread. I think I'm going to load up a few more rounds in the 46-47.5 range in smaller steps and see what I see next time out. Hopefully I can find a day to test them without the 25km winds that I dealt with today.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated though.
 
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