When is an antique pistol no longer considered an antique?

Legally: There is nothing wrong with it provided it is not concealed in any way (it would then just become a plain old concealed weapon) open carry, it would be the same as walking around crown land with a loaded shotgun. I would recommend ALWAYS carrying an FRT printout with it.

Logically: If the cop/CO/DFO officer isn't educated on this (not terribly well known) aspect of canadian law the first thing they're gonna see is a person with a handgun (evil, bad) out in the bush (bad) in a holster (still bad) probably confiscate it on the spot and it's gonna be up to you to show paperwork and explain the law (and hopefully have it returned at the end of the encounter) or have to fight to get it back from evidence
 
Let me answer the original question.

There are two logical reasons as to why would you carry a loaded handgun in a bush: self-defense or hunting. Both of which are not legit. Hence from the law prospective it becomes firearm-related offense.

The only legit reason would be target shooting on crown land. So you would be carrying the gun to the shooting spot - obviously it must be unloaded and not concealed whatever that means. As a peace of mind, I would print out FRT for the model, or better yet - obtain RCMP letter tied to this specific gun and serial, as a proof of A status.

But if you walk in a park or any other area where discharging firearm is not allowed and there is no no any spot you can legally discharge it nearby - you have no good reason to carry it even unloaded. It is still legal officially, like you can open carry your non-restricted rifle in a town right now - but that rather would be public disturbance, nuisance etc, and you still would have troubles with LE after they receive many calls about the weird person wondering around with a gun.

Bottom line: If the only reason you got an antique as a sort of permit to carry around a loaded gun, because it's not a gun - you will be disappointed

With that being said, I shoot my antiques only on a range without looking behind my shoulder. And it is not good range toy, tbh. Underpowered, inaccurate and expensive gun, which can brake down any moment.

The only good use of antique handgun - is a collectible display piece you can exhibit outside of a gun safe. Once in a while it becomes a talking point when new friend comes to my house for a beer.
 
There are two logical reasons as to why would you carry a loaded handgun in a bush: self-defense or hunting. Both of which are not legit. Hence from the law prospective it becomes firearm-related offense.
In Manitoba, you can shoot rabbits, grouse and squirrels with just about anything. Why not an antique handgun? Furthermore, in this country, you are permitted to do anything which is not prohibited by law. Not the other way around. So why do you need a reason for open carry of an antique pistol in the bush? What difference does a legit reason for doing so make on the law?
 
Can't hunt small game with a .32RF?
ON hunting regulations do not preclude small game hunting with an antique handgun.
Careful with that, I saw you mentioned "ON"

BC specifically states hunting with a handgun isn't legal. I don't know what other jurisdictions state.

I've only had one encounter with our local Constable about shooting "antique" handguns. It ended up well, but was quite tense for close to an hour.

I usually shoot the antiques at our local range, simply because it's handy. I do like taking a couple of them to a spot along a creek, where I can throw bits of wood into the current and "shoot moving targets"

When doing this, I also bring along copies of the law describing where antique firearms can be discharged and certification or antique status of the firearm.

This has always been enough to easily satisfy Conservation Officers and a couple of RCMP officers. Other folks haven't been so lucky.

If you want to carry an antique handgun into the field, get all of your ducks in a row. Paper up with the pertinent documentation.

This by no means is a guarantee you're not going to encounter an individual Officer who can't see beyond the "arrest"

Police officers are not lawyers. They may be quite well informed in certain areas of the law, which they are interested in, but that's it, and even then, they usually don't take chances. They arrest you and let the Crowns sort out the details.

You will likely be completely exonerated, but your firearm will be in their hands, in deplorable at best lock ups, where a lot of damage occurs.

This process can take anywhere from a couple of days to ?????????????

You can likely speed things up, maybe, with a lawyer.

We no longer have a "detachment" in our community, due to a lack of Constables, for whatever reason, they are all dispatched from a central point, to respond to issues or conduct patrols, etc.

Before this happened, our local detachment was pretty much up to speed on the legalities of antique handgun carry and use in the field.

This happened because we reached out to them and their CO was firearms friendly enough to allow us to show them documentation and speak with them in an open manner.

I can say this, there was more than one constable who did not like the idea of anyone carrying any type of handgun in the field or even civilian handgun ownership.

They were a definite minority in the ranks, but they do exist. How those constables would handle such altercations??????????????
 
I apologize if this has been asked before but clarification would be of considerable help. Let's say someone owns an S&W Old Army chambered in .32 rimfire. Obviously it was manufactured before 1898 and it's not chambered for a commercial cartridge that is available today. Lets assume this individual buys an H&L reloading kit and loads some ammo. He loads the cylinder and open carries it, lets say in the bush. Lets also assume he or she is stopped by an RCMP office or conservation officer.

Remember the pistol is fully loaded and quite capable of discharging the 5 rounds in the cylinder. What's the outcome of this encounter?

Thx
That fact that it is rimfire disqualifies it from Antique Status exemption according to the criteria listed on the RCMP website .

Antique firearms​

The Criminal Code defines an antique firearm as either:
https://rcmp.ca/en/firearms/classes-firearms/specific-types-firearms
  1. any firearm manufactured before 1898 that was not designed to discharge rim-fire or centre-fire ammunition and that has not been redesigned to discharge such ammunition, or
  2. any firearm that is prescribed to be an antique firearm
Criminal Code
 
That fact that it is rimfire disqualifies it from Antique Status exemption according to the criteria listed on the RCMP website .

Antique firearms​

The Criminal Code defines an antique firearm as either:
https://rcmp.ca/en/firearms/classes-firearms/specific-types-firearms
You got part of it. What you quoted applies to non-cartridge firearms having blanket antique status.
There are two classes of antique firearms: deemed and prescribed. You've identified one category and ignored the other.
Have a look at the stickied antique flow chart in the Antique forum and you will find the rules for cartridge firearms.
 
I apologize if this has been asked before but clarification would be of considerable help. Let's say someone owns an S&W Old Army chambered in .32 rimfire. Obviously it was manufactured before 1898 and it's not chambered for a commercial cartridge that is available today. Lets assume this individual buys an H&L reloading kit and loads some ammo. He loads the cylinder and open carries it, lets say in the bush. Lets also assume he or she is stopped by an RCMP office or conservation officer.

Remember the pistol is fully loaded and quite capable of discharging the 5 rounds in the cylinder. What's the outcome of this encounter?

Thx
It’s a good idea to be insured against punishment by process.
https://firearmlegaldefence.com/
 
I attended a lawyer's seminar on firearms law, and one of the guest speakers was the RCMP's top firearms specialist, or at least that was how it was represented to us. I asked him specifically where one could discharge an antique pistol. His answer was that it could be discharged anywhere a firearm could be legally discharged. So at least one of the guys at the top, knew it was legal. I looked up his name, James Helyer, NWEST (National Weapons Enforcement Support Team).

As an edit, if what you are asking is, when does an antique firearm become the subject of a criminal offence, it would be when it is used in the commision of a crime. I understand it automatically becomes considered a weapon when used to commit a crime. That's my personal opinion though, I have no legal backup for that.
It's stated under the antique regulations in the firearms act, IIRC.
 
The individual concerend should be charged with doing something foolish and stupid which should be a crime. Carrying a loaded hand gun in this country can never be a good idea. What were they thinking?
 
100% legal.
Carry the information on the pistol being an antique. And the papers saying it can be fired anywhere you can legally fire a firearm.
BUT. Cops are not required to know the law. Only thumb through possible offenses they can charge you with. Then let the courts sort it out.
 
If you want to shoot at antique revolver at gun club or remote area I would transport it like it was restricted, locked case and trigger lock. I would carry a copy of antique law with it as well as a factory letter proving it is an antique. If you don't have a rpal then get it so they can't say we have to take it from you because if it turns out it's restricted then your not qualified to own it.
Even though you are legal, there is nothing good going to come out of you having any contact with rcmp.
Laws are great if they can use them against you but I don't think the law offers you much protection. I suspect rcmp will just take your gun and say you will get it back after we find out if everything legal which translates to you and a lawyer messing around in court for years and you eventually getting your beat up gun back at great expense. The process can be quite a punishment. You have to prove yourself innocent. They don't have to prove you guilty.
 
The current situation where antique handguns may be used as if they were non-restricted does not exist by intent. It is the result of how the regulations happened to align. A default situation.
Storage and transport of antique handguns are clearly defined, observe those requirements.
If you are going to shoot at a range, it will not be noticed. If you are going to shoot off range, private land would be a better choice than public. Much less chance of attracting attention.
I personally think that anyone "going armed", carrying a loaded antique handgun in a holster, had best be very circumspect, and had best be prepared for a challenge, should law enforcement become involved.
 
The current situation where antique handguns may be used as if they were non-restricted does not exist by intent. It is the result of how the regulations happened to align. A default situation.
Storage and transport of antique handguns are clearly defined, observe those requirements.
If you are going to shoot at a range, it will not be noticed. If you are going to shoot off range, private land would be a better choice than public. Much less chance of attracting attention.
I personally think that anyone "going armed", carrying a loaded antique handgun in a holster, had best be very circumspect, and had best be prepared for a challenge, should law enforcement become involved.

There were a few threads years ago about this. Dingus who is no longer active and others vehemently claimed that carrying an antique firearm openly in the Bush is legal, whatever bush means.

As to the topic starter, he did not mention if his friend has a PAL, he just mentioned a purchase at H&C and assemble the ammunition to be fully functional. While it is not regulated who can buy brass, bullets, primer and powder, it is regulated who can buy ammunition. Owning ammo is legal for non PAL holders, that does not mean they can use it in a firearm. An antique firearm is only antique as long as it is not loaded. Once you load it with ammo, it is a a firearm as any. A hint, as tiriaq mentioned, are transport and storage regulations - antique firearms have to be handled as the class of firearms they belong to, which means a revolver, antique or not, has to be treated as restricted.
 
antique firearms have to be handled as the class of firearms they belong to, which means a revolver, antique or not, has to be treated as restricted.
That is not correct. Antique firearms, including pistols, have storage and transport laws entirely different from other handguns.
 
That is not correct. Antique firearms, including pistols, have storage and transport laws entirely different from other handguns.

Sorry, similar to NR firearms but it also depends if it is a revolver or a rifle:

https://publications.gc.ca/collections/Collection/PS99-1-2004E.pdf


https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-98-209/page-2.html

Antique Firearms​

  • 14 (1) An individual may store, display or transport an antique firearm only if it is unloaded.
  • (2) An individual may transport an antique firearm in an unattended vehicle only if
    • (a) when the vehicle is equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the antique firearm is in that trunk or compartment and the trunk or compartment is securely locked; and
    • (b) when the vehicle is not equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the antique firearm is not visible from outside the vehicle and the vehicle, or the part that contains the antique firearm, is securely locked.
  • (3) An individual may transport an antique firearm that is a handgun only if it is in a locked container that is made of an opaque material and is of such strength, construction and nature that it cannot readily be broken open or into or accidentally opened during transportation.
 
Last edited:
Sorry, similar to NR firearms but it also depends if it a revolver or a rifle:

https://publications.gc.ca/collections/Collection/PS99-1-2004E.pdf


https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-98-209/page-2.html

Antique Firearms​

  • 14 (1) An individual may store, display or transport an antique firearm only if it is unloaded.
  • (2) An individual may transport an antique firearm in an unattended vehicle only if
    • (a) when the vehicle is equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the antique firearm is in that trunk or compartment and the trunk or compartment is securely locked; and
    • (b) when the vehicle is not equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the antique firearm is not visible from outside the vehicle and the vehicle, or the part that contains the antique firearm, is securely locked.
  • (3) An individual may transport an antique firearm that is a handgun only if it is in a locked container that is made of an opaque material and is of such strength, construction and nature that it cannot readily be broken open or into or accidentally opened during transportation.
As for storage, it simply has to be unloaded. The other sections spell out more onerus storage requirements, like locked or disabled for the non-restricted firearms. Personally, because of the value, I keep mine in a safe with my other restricted handguns

  • 14 (1) An individual may store, display or transport an antique firearm only if it is unloaded.
 
Back
Top Bottom