When to FL and when to neck size

G

g-manz35

CGN Regular
Rating - 100%
18   0   0
Location
NE Sask
I have three bolt actions. 223 rem, 270 win and 338 win mag. I neck size all of them. I've notice after neck sizing a few times the loads don't chamber well. I'm assuming that a FL will allow them to be chambered easily. As a rule of thumb how many times do you neck size between FL sizing? Or do you just chuck it out? Do you treat the belted cases different?

Thanks. George
 
I find it really depends on the gun.

My M96 Swedish Mauser for example I am at 7 reloads (I think) only neck sizing and they still chamber just fine. My .300 Win Mag often has chambering issues after only 3 firings. My Lee Enfield has a hard time getting past 2 firings unless I use the o-ring trick or FL resize.

My Mosin is even more of a pain since it depends on the brand of brass. S&B need FL resizing every 2-3 firings but the PPU brass I have is at 4-5 and only neck sized, still chambers fine.

My rule of thumb is just resize when it gets stiff. Try to chamber some cases after neck sizing before loading them and if they are stiff, FL resize the whole batch. You can also partially FL resize by setting the die so it only pushes the shoulder down enough to chamber easily instead of all the way down to factory spec. H4831 on these boards mentioned this trick once and after I tried it I have done it regularly since.
 
LUTNIT said:
I find it really depends on the gun.

My M96 Swedish Mauser for example I am at 7 reloads (I think) only neck sizing and they still chamber just fine. My .300 Win Mag often has chambering issues after only 3 firings. My Lee Enfield has a hard time getting past 2 firings unless I use the o-ring trick or FL resize.

My Mosin is even more of a pain since it depends on the brand of brass. S&B need FL resizing every 2-3 firings but the PPU brass I have is at 4-5 and only neck sized, still chambers fine.

My rule of thumb is just resize when it gets stiff. Try to chamber some cases after neck sizing before loading them and if they are stiff, FL resize the whole batch. You can also partially FL resize by setting the die so it only pushes the shoulder down enough to chamber easily instead of all the way down to factory spec. H4831 on these boards mentioned this trick once and after I tried it I have done it regularly since.
Click to expand...

I never thought of trying to chamber just an empty resized case. I will try that.

Thanks. George
 
Some of my stuff is on multiple firings with only neck sizing.

Quality of brass definitely makes a difference as well as the load/performance of the cartridge.If you are running warm loads there will be more stress on the brass, less loadings before hitting the service life of the brass.

For my dad's .270 that I load I am always throwing out a case or two fairly often and that is a mediocre load.Some rifles are just more finicky than others.

I run all of my sized brass through just to make sure, ESPECIALLY hunting loads.
 
You will see the newbieness oozing here but neck sizing only sounds like a hassle given some of the responses. i.e. hard to predict when you will have to FL size etc.

Is neck sizing REALLY that worthwhile? Help me understand.
 
Yes and no.
I tried the neck sizing only and got caught.
On a moose hunt to boot.
Now I full length regardless of what I'm shooting or loading.
Not worth the hassles.
For hunting big game, I would recommend the full length.
And make sure you chamber all your hunting rounds too.
There are lots of camp fire stories about this neglect..... :D
 
Actually the opposite if you use a collet neck sizer.Minimal lube is used with a bushing die, zero lube with a collet die.

I don't spend much time trimming or cleaning lube off my cases.

Also puts less work on the brass increasing it's service life.

If you FL or neck size won't change the fact that your hunting rounds or at least the cases should be cycled to ensure reliability.You can still have a FL sized round not chamber.

There are also possible accuracy benefits if you are into precision shooting.


canoetrpr said:
You will see the newbieness oozing here but neck sizing only sounds like a hassle given some of the responses. i.e. hard to predict when you will have to FL size etc.

Is neck sizing REALLY that worthwhile? Help me understand.
Click to expand...
 
neck size a few and see if the empties still chamber with minimal resistance. A little is just fine.

If you have some cases that nee to FL, don't screw the die down ll the way. Set it so the shellholder gets with a quarter or nickle thickness of the bottom of the die. Lube the case and size them. This is partial sizing. See they now chamber OK. If they do, proceed. This reduces the working of the brass and setting the shoulder back more than is needed.

If you are going hunting, it is IMPERATIVE that you load all the ammo in the mag and cycle it through the rifle, making sure it will chamber ok. The problem, must be found at your loading bench, not in the field. Learn by the experience of others.....
 
canoetrpr said:
Is neck sizing REALLY that worthwhile? Help me understand.
Click to expand...

Brass that is fire formed to your chamber and only neck sized is generally more accurate. Unless you are shooting from a bench, prone, or other very stable position with a rifle that is accurate enough for it to make a difference there isn't much of an advantage.

The long term reports from some people who've kept track say that neck sized brass can last 20-50 firings. I haven't loaded any one set of brass enough times to really comment on this. I do know that commonly people say FL resized brass life is only around 10 firings at most.

Kelly Timoffee said:
You can still have a FL sized round not chamber.
Click to expand...

I just had this with some Lee dies for 8x57mm :mad:
Bought Hornady dies.
 
g-manz35 said:
As a rule of thumb how many times do you neck size between FL sizing? Or do you just chuck it out? Do you treat the belted cases different?

Thanks. George
Click to expand...

With 6.5x55 I have loaded 6-7 times on one batch and still have no issues with it chambering after neck sizing. With my .338 Win Mag I get about 4 firings before I need to bump the shoulders. Some of the WSM's seem to need the shoulder bumped every time. It just depends on your rifle chamber, the brass, the dies and the cartridge itself.


Ganderite said:
If you are going hunting, it is IMPERATIVE that you load all the ammo in the mag and cycle it through the rifle, making sure it will chamber ok. The problem, must be found at your loading bench, not in the field. Learn by the experience of others.....
Click to expand...

Very sound advice, missing the buck of a lifetime because your ammo won't chamber would be hard to forgive yourself for.


Mark
 
If I fl size for my .300win mag I'll see external cracks (even polped a few heads right off) or at least feel a very obvious sign (when checked internally with a pick) of head seperation within 4-5 loads. Neck sizing them... I've given up counting, 10 or more and 95% feel like brand new inside, I still check each and every one with a pick, and I'll pull a few from the batch but night and day lifespan compared to fl sizing.
 
LUTNIT said:
The long term reports from some people who've kept track say that neck sized brass can last 20-50 firings. I haven't loaded any one set of brass enough times to really comment on this. I do know that commonly people say FL resized brass life is only around 10 firings at most.
Click to expand...

These guy who say they get 20-50 firings because they are neck sizing only are full of s**t!!

Regardless of whether you FL size, or neck size, cases fail most frequently due to cracks in the neck, not elsewhere.
[this assumes you are setting up your FL die properly]

Since the neck is worked equally, whether you neck size or FL size, there is very little difference in the life of the brass.

However, there are exceptions....for example, many Lee-Enfield rifles have such generous chambers that FL sizing works the case very hard near it's head, reducing case life dramatically.

Neck sizing helps mitigate this issue in the Lee-Enfield and other military rifles with generous chambers.

Personally, I do neck size some rounds that I use for competition.

For hunting, I FL size all my hunting loads to assure they will chamber easily.

Regards, Eagleye
 
Thanks guys. I was out elk hunting when I noticed that the rounds I had just loaded were very hard to load/unload. I had noticed them slowly getting worse, but I thought it was due to the cases getting dirty so I cleaned them. cleaning obviously had nothing to do with it and it's time to Fl size them and bump the shoulders back. I tried a few rounds that had only been shot once and they are fine. I also had noticed that the 338 win mag seemed to be worse than the 270 win or 223 rem.

Thanks for all the advice. G
 
My two cents worth.


Eagleye said:
These guy who say they get 20-50 firings because they are neck sizing only are full of s**t!!


*Not neccessarily. Some of us 'ol curmudgion's ... are only the 1/2 fullashyte;). There are ways to make brass last almost indefinately.*


Regardless of whether you FL size, or neck size, cases fail most frequently due to cracks in the neck, not elsewhere.
[this assumes you are setting up your FL die properly]


*Agreed. The occasional anneal reverses work hardening of the case neck.
Also improves accuracy, as neck tension becomes even again.
Haven't split a single neck since Turdo Sr. flipped the bird.*



Since the neck is worked equally, whether you neck size or FL size, there is very little difference in the life of the brass.


*Not so. Common FL sizers over resize the neck, then drag the expander button back through to establish a tight grip for the seated bullet ... too tight in some cases. Not unusual to see the neck OD reduced by .010" or more, than it needed to be. Every pass through the die.
Contrast this to Lee Collet or a bushing neck sizer that moves the neck only once, and typically only enough to achieve 2 or 3 thou. of neck tension.*


However, there are exceptions....for example, many Lee-Enfield rifles have such generous chambers that FL sizing works the case very hard near it's head, reducing case life dramatically.


*Agreed. However, I have LE .303 cases that have been fired so often I've lost count .. over 15 for sure. First firing is with long cast bullets jammed into the throat, or, that crafty 'O' ring trick. No case stretch happens in front of the web. Subsequent reloads by collet neck size. Occasional anneal, and/or a partial Fl shoulder bump if the bolt handle gets a wee bit stiff.*


Neck sizing helps mitigate this issue in the Lee-Enfield and other military rifles with generous chambers.

Personally, I do neck size some rounds that I use for competition.

For hunting, I FL size all my hunting loads to assure they will chamber easily.

Regards, Eagleye
Click to expand...


To g-manz's OP.

Have tried them all over the years, settled on this combination.
Collet or bushing neck die.
Redding body die.
"M" neck expander.
Comp. seater for the precision rifles.
Any old FL die, used partial, expander removed, to make use of scrounged brass.

First firing with the case head held back against the bolt face. Zero headspace.

Occasional anneal.

Belted cases the same, headspaced on the shoulder.

Brass gets tossed only when a primer pocket somehow gets itself expanded. ;)

Regards to all.
 
Does nobody own a case gauge or a headspace gauge?
If you know the headspace of your rifle you can measure your cases to ensure they fit. This only works if you assume the rifle will remain dry with no water droplets on the cartridges or in the chamber.

You can also full length size and bump the shoulder back .001-.002 leaving a slight bit of room.
 
canoetrpr said:
You will see the newbieness oozing here but neck sizing only sounds like a hassle given some of the responses. i.e. hard to predict when you will have to FL size etc.

Is neck sizing REALLY that worthwhile? Help me understand.
Click to expand...

Neck sizing is easier on your brass when compared to FL sizing.
 
Ganderite said:
If you are going hunting, it is IMPERATIVE that you load all the ammo in the mag and cycle it through the rifle, making sure it will chamber ok. The problem, must be found at your loading bench, not in the field. Learn by the experience of others.....
Click to expand...

Don't forget going into competition! ;)

Even a relaxed, fun range day can be ruined by rounds that don't chamber, usually in front of your buddies. :redface:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom