I have recently been in the market for decent shootable milsurps with some history. Long branch or Canadian issued enfields, Finnish mosin nagants, mausers of all sorts and the like. Even k31s for a shooter. It's been tough. I have only been at it for a few months. EE has been good but it moves fast for the nice ones. And fricken expensive which is fine for a quality specimen but from what I've seen there have been many ugly ones for the same price as the clean units. Maybe I'm just out of the loop for going prices but I feel that thr high price tags are here to stay. So are the stockpiles all dried up. Have they been for years? Or is this just a dry spell? I have checked the dealers for the surplus guns but it seems they all but been bought up. Am I gonna have to keep a pre type "I'll take it" saved for the second a ad is listed on EE. Hahah. Kidding aside there are nice units on there and still are but will we get saturated in surplus love again?
Where have all the milsurps gone?
- Thread starter mctrigger
- Start date
After the hostilities in the Ukraine end we could see another wave of Soviet milsurps. Some Soviet stuff continues to trickle in (recent batch of PU snipers, SKS and TT-33 from Russian exports).
There was a recent auction in Serbia but it looks like the USA is getting most of it.
In general, there is not a lot of surplus left to be had. However, certain countries still have stock piles (China, Ukraine, Russia) and will put them for sale when money is needed.
There was a recent auction in Serbia but it looks like the USA is getting most of it.
In general, there is not a lot of surplus left to be had. However, certain countries still have stock piles (China, Ukraine, Russia) and will put them for sale when money is needed.
- Location
- Steel Town and The Peg
Still plenty of good stuff on EE, it just takes a bit of effort sifting through the bubba'd, worn out, and faked crap. There's at least 1 nice Israeli and VZ Mauser, several decent SKS's, etc.
Eaglelord17
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Sault Ste. Marie
Biggest factor is more people are interested in milsurps than ever before. Historically this wasn't the case which kept the prices down for the few that were actually serious about collecting. Now everyone seems to be interested not just collectors. I would argue the number of collectors hasn't really gone up, just the people who want own these types of firearms have.
The stockpiles are pretty much all gone except for the odd batch found here and there and all that is left is on the market already. No longer are you really buying from dealers, for the most part it is all private sale. Many of the older rifles were cut down into sporting rifles which also reduced the quantity.
For me it is crazy I have only really been collecting for 6 years and the quantity of items available has dropped significantly and the quality isn't as high as it was. Some of the firearms I bought have doubled or tripled in value (primarily my Swiss collection).
My advice if you are serious about wanting to collect milsurps is try to figure out what interests you first. Plan from there, as the items are too expensive and don't turn up often enough to do otherwise (unless your rich). Try to see if there is a collector in your area who might let you take a look at what they have just to see what interests you when it is in your hands. I personally bought and sold about 10 rifles before I figured out roughly what I liked, it is getting a bit expensive to do that now.
The stockpiles are pretty much all gone except for the odd batch found here and there and all that is left is on the market already. No longer are you really buying from dealers, for the most part it is all private sale. Many of the older rifles were cut down into sporting rifles which also reduced the quantity.
For me it is crazy I have only really been collecting for 6 years and the quantity of items available has dropped significantly and the quality isn't as high as it was. Some of the firearms I bought have doubled or tripled in value (primarily my Swiss collection).
My advice if you are serious about wanting to collect milsurps is try to figure out what interests you first. Plan from there, as the items are too expensive and don't turn up often enough to do otherwise (unless your rich). Try to see if there is a collector in your area who might let you take a look at what they have just to see what interests you when it is in your hands. I personally bought and sold about 10 rifles before I figured out roughly what I liked, it is getting a bit expensive to do that now.
Solid advice. I suppose that a increase in interest isn't the worst thing. It's good to Hear that these guns will stay around vs destroyed. So it looks like I shouldn't hold my breath for any deals of shipments of Arms for the dealers. Hindsight is always 20/20 I guess. Who would have guessed that investing in surplus guns would be better returns than gold. At this rate I better get buying now.
These are the golden days for Mosins. Jump in before it's too late.
I now have excellent examples of a few Izhevsk's and a Finn M39, but it takes time to find and know what you're looking for.
Lee Enfields, K31's and Mausers are on the EE all the time. Finding original M1 Garands are expensive.
Watch out for desporterized and fakes being offered up as originals. Nothing wrong with them as long as you realize they are shooters only.
I now have excellent examples of a few Izhevsk's and a Finn M39, but it takes time to find and know what you're looking for.
Lee Enfields, K31's and Mausers are on the EE all the time. Finding original M1 Garands are expensive.
Watch out for desporterized and fakes being offered up as originals. Nothing wrong with them as long as you realize they are shooters only.
There are definitely fewer out there than there were - I think alot of the really good stuff has just disappeared into collections. When I first got into collecting, 15 - 20 years ago, C-68 had just come into force and the market was flooded with unwanted guns, including lots of surplus. I remember buying Mosins (including Finn M91s) for less than $100 for dealers, and could even pick up an M91/30 at a guns how for under $50. Nothing lasts forever though, I was just thinking the other day about stuff that's been imported in the last 15 years you never seem to see anymore. I remember than Vz.52 pistols could be had all over for a good price and realised I don't think I've seen one at any price in 5 years at least. There were a bunch of Iraqi Tariq's imported around 2010 and they've dried up, and Soviet Nagant revolvers have quadrupled in price since they first appeared in 2008ish - I remember when you couldn't give them away! I remember $600 Turkish surplus Garands in as recently as 2007, Yugo M24/47s were around forever (you still see M48s though), same with M95 straight pulls. I think anything good quality sooner or later is going to get squirreled away and skyrocket in price.
In terms of real WW2, and especially WW1, guns, other than the Soviet refurbs, I think the large imports are long over and you're stuck buying on the secondary market. On the plus side, oddball ammo is so much more available than it used to be - the recent wide availability of PPU ammo is a godsend for the milsurp collector. Enfields are still out there, but they won't ever get any cheaper. I personally can't wrap my head around Garand prices, especially for the builds, but selfishly I bought mine for $400 in 2003 and it's not going anywhere! Finn M91s are still a great buy as a collector, and I think the M39s you see out there will jump in price once the recent import is all bought up (Jean Plamondon still has some nice ones) - M27s don't seem to command the same value and you only see M28s once in a blue moon anyways. I think the best buys still out there are the underappreciated rifles - Carcanos and M95 straight pulls can still be had for a decent price and ammo is actually available now, unlike when I started! As others have said it's definitely the best time to buy Soviet milsurps - M91/30s (including snipers), SKSs, SVT-40s and TT-33s can still be had from most dealers, but they won't be around forever. I remember when they weren't available (of course back then you still buy M44s for $80, try that now) and it'll swing around again.
As your collection gets more advanced it can be harder to find what you want - I'm at the point where I already have most of the easily obtainable guns I'm interested in. These days I buy a lot from auctions (there's actually been some really good milsurps at auction in the last year), but it's not a cheap way to get guns. Local auctions are more likely to result in decent sale prices than the big internet ones (Landsborough, Switzers) but always keep the buyer's premium in mind!
Believe it or not the time will come when it's hard to find unmessed with SKSs, since everybody and their brother (collector or shooter) buys one, lots of people don't clean them properly and at least half are sticking them in ugly Tapco stocks. There's still Swiss K and G11s around, but they'll be gone soon, and the refurbished VZ24s and Yugo M48s will probably dry up after that. The Chilean Mausers that came in a few years ago don't seem to have stirred up a ton of interest (probably the lack of interesting war use) but they won't last forever either.
In terms of real WW2, and especially WW1, guns, other than the Soviet refurbs, I think the large imports are long over and you're stuck buying on the secondary market. On the plus side, oddball ammo is so much more available than it used to be - the recent wide availability of PPU ammo is a godsend for the milsurp collector. Enfields are still out there, but they won't ever get any cheaper. I personally can't wrap my head around Garand prices, especially for the builds, but selfishly I bought mine for $400 in 2003 and it's not going anywhere! Finn M91s are still a great buy as a collector, and I think the M39s you see out there will jump in price once the recent import is all bought up (Jean Plamondon still has some nice ones) - M27s don't seem to command the same value and you only see M28s once in a blue moon anyways. I think the best buys still out there are the underappreciated rifles - Carcanos and M95 straight pulls can still be had for a decent price and ammo is actually available now, unlike when I started! As others have said it's definitely the best time to buy Soviet milsurps - M91/30s (including snipers), SKSs, SVT-40s and TT-33s can still be had from most dealers, but they won't be around forever. I remember when they weren't available (of course back then you still buy M44s for $80, try that now) and it'll swing around again.
As your collection gets more advanced it can be harder to find what you want - I'm at the point where I already have most of the easily obtainable guns I'm interested in. These days I buy a lot from auctions (there's actually been some really good milsurps at auction in the last year), but it's not a cheap way to get guns. Local auctions are more likely to result in decent sale prices than the big internet ones (Landsborough, Switzers) but always keep the buyer's premium in mind!
Believe it or not the time will come when it's hard to find unmessed with SKSs, since everybody and their brother (collector or shooter) buys one, lots of people don't clean them properly and at least half are sticking them in ugly Tapco stocks. There's still Swiss K and G11s around, but they'll be gone soon, and the refurbished VZ24s and Yugo M48s will probably dry up after that. The Chilean Mausers that came in a few years ago don't seem to have stirred up a ton of interest (probably the lack of interesting war use) but they won't last forever either.
Personally as a shooter and collector I think the bigger issue will be inexpensive ammo to feed them 303, 30-06, 7.5 French, 8mm all difficult to find. Strongly recommend buying ammo that is available now in quantity such as 7.63x39, Norinco 7.62 NATO etc.
Cheap ammo is what pushed me down this rabbit hole. Hahah. Seemed to good to pass up the opportunity of shooting all
Day for under 50 bucks. One thing led to the next and now I have some serious interest in the guns and the mechanics of
What makes them what they are. Although most of these guns are more than I would like
To spend I most likely won't lose money on them if I ever had to part with them.
Day for under 50 bucks. One thing led to the next and now I have some serious interest in the guns and the mechanics of
What makes them what they are. Although most of these guns are more than I would like
To spend I most likely won't lose money on them if I ever had to part with them.
Lol!! Watch out! I was the same way until I realized my old cheap ammo milsurp rifles all shot way better with my hand loads. Now I'm an avid boolit caster and reloader! It's just another hobby to spend lots of $$ doing. Shooting your own lead cast bullets in a 70 yr old rifle and hitting 1" or less at 100M is truly the most rewarding experience I've had since I started shooting.
The cz858 I own one and great fun to shoot but although a sweet piece it doesn't quite have the nostalgia of a full stock enfield or Mauser. Those are the weapons that changed the world. The history and the hands that touched them can never be duplicated.
- Location
- Steel Town and The Peg
I'm also becoming very interested in milsurps and now have my eye on several sweet M95 carbines.
