In Canada?? If he orders from Numrich yes in the US but getting very costly to get them here
Cheers
Where have all the Winchester Model 12's gone?
- Thread starter International Harvester
- Start date
In Canada?? If he orders from Numrich yes in the US but getting very costly to get them here
Cheers
madtrapper143
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Steep Rock Lake NWO
Model 12 shotguns are not "drop in" guns. Remington 870,1100 and others are. The parts I get from Numrich for my model 12 projects are often as worn as the ones I want to replace. I would wager 90% of Model 12 parts need to be fitted. That takes a smith that knows model 12 shotguns. Believe me when I say I have had to buy parts over again after I attempted to "fit" them without proper tooling and experience. A little pricey but I have learned. I love the model 12. My dad hunted one for over 45 years. He shot everything from ducks and geese to jack rabbits and deer with that old gun. The one I have now is a 1941 built gun that has had 3" cut from it's formally "FULL" barrel. ( not by me) It still measures IMP CYL and still throws modified patterns of numbered steel shot. Thanks to guys like 3 Macs and Struff I have been able to learn about these guns and obtain decent parts. I would like a Heavy Duck but the few I have purchased all had major feeding problems that could not be remedied. I even tried 3 late 1950's production 16 gauges and all had trouble with the new euro hull ammo available now. The cases are too long even for a late model 12. Remington game load worked about 30% of the time. The ones that actually worked the best were old Imperial with the melted pie crimp. Last time I checked these were not being made anymore 
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Darryl
.Darryl
Falconflyer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Everything costs money these days when your buying with a Canadian dollar.
I've never asked him where he sources parts but I'm assuming it's in the US, I will ask him. He's a bit of an M-12 aficionado and has a room full of them.
Yes and most will be reproduction parts that fit terrible
There are smiths and then there WAS model 12 smiths. None of which I can name any more sadly
on this side of the border, there maybe but no names come to mind that would be working on any volume of them any moreLast guy I remember was at epps he knew model 12's big time
Cheers
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Model 12 shotguns are not "drop in" guns. Remington 870,1100 and others are. The parts I get from Numrich for my model 12 projects are often as worn as the ones I want to replace. I would wager 90% of Model 12 parts need to be fitted. That takes a smith that knows model 12 shotguns. Believe me when I say I have had to buy parts over again after I attempted to "fit" them without proper tooling and experience. A little pricey but I have learned. I love the model 12. My dad hunted one for over 45 years. He shot everything from ducks and geese to jack rabbits and deer with that old gun. The one I have now is a 1941 built gun that has had 3" cut from it's formally "FULL" barrel. ( not by me) It still measures IMP CYL and still throws modified patterns of numbered steel shot. Thanks to guys like 3 Macs and Struff I have been able to learn about these guns and obtain decent parts. I would like a Heavy Duck but the few I have purchased all had major feeding problems that could not be remedied. I even tried 3 late 1950's production 16 gauges and all had trouble with the new euro hull ammo available now. The cases are too long even for a late model 12. Remington game load worked about 30% of the time. The ones that actually worked the best were old Imperial with the melted pie crimp. Last time I checked these were not being made anymore
Darryl
You are 100% right on the hulls.
The problem with the duck guns is that when they were built the shells you bought were rolled crimped and were a little shorter than now a days 3" shells. The duck gun did not function real well due to feeding problems with the newer style hulls even back then. When the 3" hull was shucked out the tip of the hull would rub the front of the receiver
I find the old imperials getting harder and harder to find now anywhere
I found this little batch in a yard sale this summer of all places which never happens. Yes this and this x1 but it was not a happy story
Cheers
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I still have two 3" HD Model 12's. One with a solid rib and the other a round barrel. . The 3" Heavy Duck Gun use a slightly longer spring on the ejector to kick out the longer shell. Back in the day some HD M12's have had the ejector replaced with a standard 2/3/4" ejector whenever one would break the tip off or whatever. . So now there's a hit and miss with ejection. I forget which one but one of my HD guns had the shorter spring. I replaced it and have had no ejection issues.
The first 20 ga and 16 ga M12's used a shorter shell, the 20 ga was 2 1/2" and the 16 ga was 2 9/16". When both gauges were lengthened to 2 3/4" the ejection port was lengthened and the ejection spring was lengthened. I have two pre-war 16 ga and one transition 16 ga. M12's and I've replaced both pre-wars ejector springs. Was quite a while ago so I forget whether I had problems or just replaced the springs because I had some new ones but all three guns kick the shells out okay.
I remember in the past I replaced an ejector with an after market one, it fit okay and worked just fine, but the machined metal part of the ejector looked different than what I was used to seeing. At the time I figured it was new stock for the Y Model or Japanese ones. Anyways it worked fine. I believe Numrich is about the only one who'll ship to Canada and most of the ejectors would be used ones.
I'm fortunate to have stocked up on M12 parts so I'm fine for ejectors and I still have a new firing pin. From the 2 million M12's built I often wonder how many have survived as ebay has sold off so many parts from guns that have been parted out.
The first 20 ga and 16 ga M12's used a shorter shell, the 20 ga was 2 1/2" and the 16 ga was 2 9/16". When both gauges were lengthened to 2 3/4" the ejection port was lengthened and the ejection spring was lengthened. I have two pre-war 16 ga and one transition 16 ga. M12's and I've replaced both pre-wars ejector springs. Was quite a while ago so I forget whether I had problems or just replaced the springs because I had some new ones but all three guns kick the shells out okay.
I remember in the past I replaced an ejector with an after market one, it fit okay and worked just fine, but the machined metal part of the ejector looked different than what I was used to seeing. At the time I figured it was new stock for the Y Model or Japanese ones. Anyways it worked fine. I believe Numrich is about the only one who'll ship to Canada and most of the ejectors would be used ones.
I'm fortunate to have stocked up on M12 parts so I'm fine for ejectors and I still have a new firing pin. From the 2 million M12's built I often wonder how many have survived as ebay has sold off so many parts from guns that have been parted out.
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After a couple of years of shooting mostly my 30" full choke M1897 it became my favourite shotgun so I figured I should get myself an M12 too. I ended up finding a mint 1959 field grade 12 gauge at my local gun shop. It appeared to be virtually unused with no wear or scratches on the wood and blueing. I probably paid too much for it but I had to have it I think I paid $600 for it but I don't regret it. I still mostly pull my 1897 out of the safe though.
M12shooter
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- East St. Paul, mb
Anything old is not really popular these days in the era of plastic guns...
Travis Bickle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Upper Lower Middle Alberta
I am still a die hard fan of the action.
I'll always have a standard 12ga utility model in my locker.
I think its great that noone wants them up here anymore. You can buy them dirt cheap all over. I've learned to work on them in depth over the years.
Parts are plentiful. You can buy neglected ones and strip them for parts etc.
I've rescued 3 of them from broken wall hangers and they're all firing shells again without a hitch.
I'll always have a standard 12ga utility model in my locker.
I think its great that noone wants them up here anymore. You can buy them dirt cheap all over. I've learned to work on them in depth over the years.
Parts are plentiful. You can buy neglected ones and strip them for parts etc.
I've rescued 3 of them from broken wall hangers and they're all firing shells again without a hitch.
All this Model 12 talk got me curious on how many I still have so I opened my safe and counted them. I've been buying selling and upgrading over the years the ones I kept are in very nice condition mainly solid rib, vented rib, 2-pin, 3-pin skeet, trap, a couple of solid rib fields, pre-war, early post war transition, all the gauges except the 28 ga. . I counted 21 plus 2 Model 42's. Also have some excellent condition Model 50's, skeet field and trap, all with vented ribs, 2 pin, 3 pin and round post. I'll take my Model 12's any day to the plastic pumpers offered today.
Off topic but what the hell; I used to hear the Winchester guys bragging up the Super X-one being so much better than the Model 50. So I bought a deluxe one with 3 barrels, the do all shotgun. Oh it's a shiny one all right and a great looker but I prefer the Model 12 and the Model 50. It's what I grew up with and still like them.
Off topic but what the hell; I used to hear the Winchester guys bragging up the Super X-one being so much better than the Model 50. So I bought a deluxe one with 3 barrels, the do all shotgun. Oh it's a shiny one all right and a great looker but I prefer the Model 12 and the Model 50. It's what I grew up with and still like them.
And there we have the great divide - those of us that like the Model 12 and the other guys that like the 870.
We have one of those 870 guys in our club - couldn't give him a Model 12, an attitude that I just don't understand.
I am really a double gun guy, but if I am going to have a pump gun it will be a Model 12, a fine piece of machinery.
We have one of those 870 guys in our club - couldn't give him a Model 12, an attitude that I just don't understand.
I am really a double gun guy, but if I am going to have a pump gun it will be a Model 12, a fine piece of machinery.
No not for me. I love all pumps. I had a collection of model 12's also maybe a dozen at one time but downsized in the past 10 years and kept just the what I call money/ special ones in 20, 16 and 28ga. A model 12 is one hull of a fine gun but so is a vintage wingmaster and even better a model 31
When I compare the model 12 it is never against my 870's but against my model 31's now that is a better gun than the 12 LOL
I have a set of ithaca 37 also I love, some high standards etc
You want to own the best pump ever made buy a model 31
and try to find the ball bearing in the action Cheers
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Cause it is
Christ you and model 12's sounds like me and wingmasters. Last count was 23 or 24 LOL
Cheers
That's a nice looking Bob Baumgart Super X-One. He was quite the proponent of the SX-1 and well respected for his workmanship. Does your's have his intials stamped on the trigger assy?
Last time I checked with WGP their buffers cost $36 plus $15 shipping.
I have only one Remington Wingmaster, it was my Dad's. He was a fan of Remington shotguns.
Here's a picture I have on imigur showing the buttstock on one of my 1930's M12 Skeet Guns.
And my Super X-One
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