Where is the 5.56 and .223? No Selection!

rivetc78

rivetc78

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Been here on the board awhile. Things are not changing.............:(

Bulk ammo is pretty much Winchester here and some federal there....
Then that overpriced PMC stuff comes up as well.

Where is the Choice? Why no Selection?

Why can't I go to the store and decide if I want, XM855 or XM193 etc.
Bulk .223 / 5.56 is everywhere now. Except here.

Lots of new ammo production NATO ammo out now too, can't be that hard to get approved for sale.

We evenhave an ammo sponsor that has no ammo.:p

Almost seems like a control problem, control what comes in and control the price.
 
I guess you better import it yourself. If you can do a better job and give better prices, please start your own ammo business. You sound like a person who doesn't have their own business. These businesses don't have tons of extra money laying around. They will bring in ammo that sells the best.
 
griffin86 said:
I guess you better import it yourself. If you can do a better job and give better prices, please start your own ammo business. You sound like a person who doesn't have their own business. These businesses don't have tons of extra money laying around. They will bring in ammo that sells the best.
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What has that got to do with not having any choice? You misunderstood my post

I knew someone would throw in the 'Try importing yourself' or 'you don't run a business' crap.

Always someoneto defend the dealer.


I was asking why there isn't any ammo choice. Read the post.

There is a smorgasbord of ammo south of the border....where is ours?
 
"...XM855 or XM193..." Both are U.S. milsurp. Any that gets released gets sold quickly, Stateside and exporting it is heavily controlled by the U.S. Government.
Canadian milsurp, if there is any, ammo doesn't get released for sale to civilians.
 
rivetc78 said:
What has that got to do with not having any choice? You misunderstood my post

I knew someone would throw in the 'Try importing yourself' or 'you don't run a business' crap.

Always someoneto defend the dealer.


I was asking why there isn't any ammo choice. Read the post.

There is a smorgasbord of ammo south of the border....where is ours?
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I did understand your post. Your problem deals with economics. Of course I will be on the dealers side, they are doing a great job at keeping prices reasonable.

Take SFRC for example, look at how many calibres they have. How much ammo do they have to have stocked? They can only have so much money tied up in inventory. The other kinds of ammo are more expensive than Federal. What do you think sells more, expensive ammo or cheap ammo? Cheap ammo will always sell better. How many people can shoot 5.56 in their rifles?

Why does the US has more variety? There are more gun owners (at least 10X). Also some of the ammo you want, isn't on NRCAN's approved ammo list.

If you want cheap, different ammo, I suggest reloading.
 
I still believe NRCAN employees who are anti-guns should be fired and replaced with people who would be willing to offer good services to their customers and bosses (us the taxpayers!)
 
CdnCombatMedic said:
This is why there is the problem you talk off!!!
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Because I can see the costs involved with running a business? Don't you think John at Marstar is doing an awesome job? Mark at Questar? Wolverine Supplies?

Sorry if I think the dealers are allowed to make a profit, feed their kids, pay their employees, pay rent, electricity... Etc. How much do you think it costs to be a dealer on CGN? I would say $500 to $1000 depending on if you're an importer, have your own forum and a banner.
 
Reload if you can / able / willing. A bit of a PITA and (depending on your choosen set up) a bit costly....but your not subject to the availability or selection of commercial ammo. Components occassionally can be a challege though.
 
$1000 is not much in advertising. Hats off to them if that is what they are paying to have a banner on this website.

just my. 02
 
rivetc78 said:
Been here on the board awhile. Things are not changing.............:(

Bulk ammo is pretty much Winchester here and some federal there....
Then that overpriced PMC stuff comes up as well.

Where is the Choice? Why no Selection?

Why can't I go to the store and decide if I want, XM855 or XM193 etc.
Bulk .223 / 5.56 is everywhere now. Except here.

Lots of new ammo production NATO ammo out now too, can't be that hard to get approved for sale.

We evenhave an ammo sponsor that has no ammo.:p

Almost seems like a control problem, control what comes in and control the price.
Click to expand...

You can, it just doesn't last long when it arrives. Export is very limitted, many dealers wait months for their ammo orders and many dealers orders never get filled. they take what they can get when they can get it as the demand is high and it makes sense to stock all they can they just can't get it as easily as you or I would like
 
We just got in some MFS (Russian) .223, steel case (zinc plated) Berdan primed, 55 FMJ @$399/1000 ($9/20) and 62 gr soft point @$299/500 ($12/20). Also 7.62/30 FMJ and SP and &.62x54R FMJ and SP. Phil.
 
Welcome to the land of no choice and high prices. I have dealt with P&D sometimes with exotic ammos, it seems I call Chris and tell him what I want and in two weeks it is there. Anything almost. Price is comparible to US prices. Why can't we just get normal run of the mill surpluss or good factory boxed stuff like XM193, which are seconds and not regulated that hard by the US. Why can't we have selection. I know the dealers can get the stuff, I have ordered lots of odd ball 5.56mm spec stuff and never had a problem with P&D. Now why can't they just put more selection in the stores?

Most gun shops in Canada are like sporting good stores. Gunstores in the states are gunstores. You want 9mm ammo, there is shelf 30 feet long with every make known, for decent prices. Canadian gunstores might have a box of WWB 9mm for $40 if you are lucky
 
rivetc78 said:
Been here on the board awhile. Things are not changing.............:(

Bulk ammo is pretty much Winchester here and some federal there....
Then that overpriced PMC stuff comes up as well.

Where is the Choice? Why no Selection?

Why can't I go to the store and decide if I want, XM855 or XM193 etc.
Bulk .223 / 5.56 is everywhere now. Except here.

Lots of new ammo production NATO ammo out now too, can't be that hard to get approved for sale.

We evenhave an ammo sponsor that has no ammo.:p

Almost seems like a control problem, control what comes in and control the price.
Click to expand...



I've been wondering the same thing myself? There has to be a pretty healthy demand for that type of ammo so I'm not sure why more dealers don't bring the different varieties in? The same old same old 55 gr FMJ rounds are available everywhere.
 
Due to government interference (past and present), normal laws of economics simply do not apply in Canada. Too much paperwork and regulation.
 
rivetc78 said:
B
Lots of new ammo production NATO ammo out now too, can't be that hard to get approved for sale.
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You think? If it is surplus, then the dealer must have FULL cooperation from the manufacturer and the manufacturer must provide ALL chemical and production records for that ammo.

http://www.nrcan-rncan.gc.ca/mms-smm/expl-expl/pdf/car-car-eng.pdf

http://www.nrcan-rncan.gc.ca/mms-smm/expl-expl/pdf/fm31-eng.pdf

If it is surplus, then the dealer also has to buy all the ammo to make sure that in a year or two when he finally does get approval, that the ammo is still available. Why pay a couple thousand $$ for testing a batch of ammo if it isn't there in a couple years when you finally get your approval. And after all of that, there is no guarantee that it will get approved.

The only way it works with surplus is if the dealer gets it really cheap, and has a secondary market to sell it to if they don't get Canadian approval.

So if a batch of ammo did come up on the market today, you wouldn't see it for sale in Canada for 2 years, taking into account approvals and shipping. Holding onto product a couple years before you can sell it really digs into profit margins and ties up cash flow.

So yea, I am on the dealer's side on this one.
 
SandRoad said:
You think? If it is surplus, then the dealer must have FULL cooperation from the manufacturer and the manufacturer must provide ALL chemical and production records for that ammo.

http://www.nrcan-rncan.gc.ca/mms-smm/expl-expl/pdf/car-car-eng.pdf

http://www.nrcan-rncan.gc.ca/mms-smm/expl-expl/pdf/fm31-eng.pdf

If it is surplus, then the dealer also has to buy all the ammo to make sure that in a year or two when he finally does get approval, that the ammo is still available. Why pay a couple thousand $$ for testing a batch of ammo if it isn't there in a couple years when you finally get your approval. And after all of that, there is no guarantee that it will get approved.

The only way it works with surplus is if the dealer gets it really cheap, and has a secondary market to sell it to if they don't get Canadian approval.

So if a batch of ammo did come up on the market today, you wouldn't see it for sale in Canada for 2 years, taking into account approvals and shipping. Holding onto product a couple years before you can sell it really digs into profit margins and ties up cash flow.

So yea, I am on the dealer's side on this one.
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Lets just get rid of nrcan and all the other beaurcratic BS. Problem solved.

Lots of ammo. What doesn't nrcan really do anyways? Testing ammo? Let them do there work and leave ammo alone. Does nrcan really think that BH's Mk262 and LC's M855 and M193 are not up to our standards? Does anyone at nrcan know there ass from a hole in the ground? Or is it just like the CFC and there wannabe inconsistant rules?

I thought government was supposed to work for the people and not against it. But considered the laws of supply and demand don't work in the firearms business in Canada, why do the consumers always get screwed for how messed up the overall system is? I understand it from the dealers side, they are up the creek all the time, waiting for all the BS to run its course. Maybe its time to rethink the overall gun and ammo situation in Canada and make it easier. Get the people out of government that make the decisions on guns but no experience. Get nrcan out of the ammo inspection business, they aren't doing anything for my tax dollars. Gun stores in Canada are hardly gunstores anymore, the local two bit store across the line has way more selection and products available than the biggest shops in all of our country.

Wishing that the BS is going to get out of government, what am I thinking? Really? Same stuff all the time, no change or choice in our great land of no oppurtunity.
 
We recently submitted a NATO certified manufacturer for testing. NRCAN have asked for samples for testing, and the back log is 3 months for testing at CERL. Add to that the costs of permit and air freight for the samples. All for a NATO certified manufacturer.
One big problem is that the NRCAN staff know almost nothing about the ammo industry. They are experts in high explosives, ming, etc. and despite ammo being of very high safety and low incidents rate (aka zero) they still demand the same specs and testing as any new explosive product.
 
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