Where to buy Nitric Acid (for rust blueing bluing blue)

mooncoon said:
That is not 100% true, assuming that fuming nitric is the same as conc nitric at around 95% acid. There is not enough water for it to ionize. I have seen my boss spill a small amount on his bare hand and wash it quickly off, without burning. I have also seen nitric at a lower concentration run down a person's arm visibly burning tissue as it went.
One problem with buying chemicals is that they may only sell to companies and not to individuals.

cheers mooncoon
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I purchase fuming Red nitric for industrial usage. I dont care for the stuff, ymmv. Agreed that there are several different versions of it. None are to be taken lightly. Chemical lab supply houses should have small quantities of reagent grades 1 litre bottles and such. You can buy cheaper less pure grades as well.
 
USP said:
Its not a chemical to be taken lightly. You will need a proper respirator, face shield, goggles,gloves to work with it. A full splash apron is recommended to. Make sure the glove material you use is suitable for the acid or you can have fun watching the unsuitable glove material boil on your hands when its in contact with the acid.

Kencro is big Nitric dealer.
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Breathing the fumes causes the protein in you lungs to denature. This results in loss of breath and death.
Use it in a fume hood.
Read the safety sheet for concentrated nitric acid. It is not something you want to store or use anyplace someone lives.

And rad shops do not use nitric acid, they use Muriatic acid ( 30% hydrochloric acid).
 
Overrated.

70% (concentrated) is easy to handle with adequate ventilation, gloves (latex works) and goggles.

Besides, once you dilute it for the blueing solution, it will not fume significantly. And then you can handle it like water, well minus drinking it.

The fuming acids (concentration usually 95-100%) are more nasty to handle and definitely require very good ventilation.
As a chemist I have worked with 70% and 100% nitric, I know what both smell like and how both burn the skin (70% slowly, 100% a bit faster, in any case, if you wash it off in a few seconds you are fine), and one can easily use either.

But do not buy too much or you will be under suspicion for explosives manufacture. The fuming, pure acid is more suspicious than the 70% concentrated stuff.
 
beretta boy said:
I would be more suspicious of a farmer buying large quantities of
bagged nitrogen-rich fertilizer and coloured diesel fuel ...
ala "Oklahoma" McVeigh !
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What have you got against farmers?

Do you not like tractors and crops?
 
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effects said:
I just last week bought 500 ml at Anachemia Science in Richmond BC. It is reagent grade = 60 - 70%. It cost $32.50 taxes in for 500 ml which is enough to make somewhere around 6 litres of rust blue solution. I picked it up by I know shipping is available. I did have to fill in a form ( with a copy of driver's license) for what I was using it for. I wrote "plating metal".

I think Anchemia may be a chain and there may be one near you.

Anachemia Science
#10 3571 Viking Way
Richmond, BC
V6V 1W1
604 270-2252

I'm testing now and it seems that things are going to work well. I also got Iron fillings (I was leary of horseshoe nails) from "Science and Nature" store in the mall. Anachemia carries Fe (Iron pellets) but didn't have any in stock. Anachemia Fe is expensive. The stuff from the reatailer in the mall was $10 for 200 g which is lots.
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I stand corrected. I guess they will sell to anyone. They will just put your credentials into the LEO systems watching for suspected terrorist activities. Wich ain't that bad from a security perspective, unless you apply for a job requiring security clearance.
 
drvrage said:
What have you got against farmers?...
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Nothing at all .... but a truckload of nitrogen rich fertilizer & diesel fuel was is used to make the big bang by Mr. McVeigh in Oklahoma ... all readily available everyday (then and now) to the agricultural community - with no big eyebrows raised about such purchases. Half a litre of nitric acid ? - can't believe for a minute that the RCMP or CSIS would be rapping at your door with a TRU Team in tow, just cause you want to blue a couple of guns .
 
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drvrage said:
I stand corrected. I guess they will sell to anyone. They will just put your credentials into the LEO systems watching for suspected terrorist activities. Wich ain't that bad from a security perspective, unless you apply for a job requiring security clearance.
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Holy paranoid android, batman! Take off the tin foil hat brother! :)

AlphaChem.ca is the distributor I reached. They are happy to accept orders of any size, and ship across Canada using multiple carriers.

I have pricing for those interested. These are ACS reagant grade (meets the limits of purity for inorganic chemicals as established by the American Chemical Society). Basically, it's as pure as it comes and as is required.

HCL (Hydrochloric Acid) - 500ml - $38.61 -- AKA Muriatic Acid
HNO3 (Nitric Acid) - 500ml - $46.20

Shipping is approximately $36 via purolator (approx 500km away). In this quantity, it is not considered a hazardous material, and therefore is not subject to the HazMat surcharge. In greater quantities, shipping would easily triple because it would be subject to HazMat fees.

My estimations predict that 500mL HCL and 500mL HNO3 would be enough to create approximately 16 Litres of rust blueing solution for a total cost of approximately $140 taxes included.

The formula is as follows:
- 500mL ACS-grade HCL
- 500mL ACS-grade HNO3
- 15L DISTILLED water (seriously, distilled...very critical)
- Iron filings

This will bring the entire aqueous solution to a volume of 16L. Dissolve pure iron in the solution until the solution is saturated and cannot absorb any more. Be careful as it will create heat and fumes, namely toxic Nitrogen Dioxide gas.

This thread should basically cover any questions/concerns someone looking to rust blue would have.

I have not completed this yet, and I would like to welcome suggestions/comments/corrections from those who have.

Use this info at your own risk.
 
buckbrush said:
isn't Nitric acid + cotton a nitro cellulose? chop it up in a blender and tou have 4831, run it some more and you have unique!
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You need some sulphuric acid as well as a directional agent for the bonding of the nitric radicals. Then you need to extrude the nitrocellulose into the right shape and apply suitable retardants to get 4831.

More to the point, I remain puzzled about the formula being suggested for rust browning; if you check Angier's book on bluing, the majority of his formulas for bluing/browning iron depend primarily upon mercuric chloride as the principle rusting agent and include some ferric chloride, a titch of nitric and some alcohol presumably as a wetting agent so the liquid does not bead up on the metal. Some formulas also include a small amount of copper sulphate.

the nitric acid and iron (I use steel wool) mixture is normally used for staining maple stocks when building muzzle loaders and I don't recall hearing of it being used for rust browning/bluing a barrel

cheers mooncoon
 
Not only that, Firemachine, but slow rust bluing creates a MUCH nicer blue that is described as being "IN" the steel, instead of "ON" it like the cold blue.
 
mooncoon said:
You need some sulphuric acid as well as a directional agent for the bonding of the nitric radicals. Then you need to extrude the nitrocellulose into the right shape and apply suitable retardants to get 4831.
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Right gist, wrong chemically. Sulfuric acts as a dehydrating reagent removing water formed in the reaction making the reaction of nitronium ions irreversible with the alcohol.

Nitrocellulose took years to be adopted due to the difficulty stabilizing it, I think diphenylamine is/was used in part.

Also, 500mL for 50$ :eek: RIP OFF.
 
I have "rust" blued several firearms, all I use is a very dilute solution of Muriatic acid (.5 or less %). I degrease (very important), then rust and card several times - 4 or more, the idea being to "build up" a fine coat of chlorine rust, a higher the concentration of HCL will produce a more "coarse" rust. Rust bluing in effect etches into the metal and gives a more durable finish. Once I'm happy with the rusting etc. I immerse the item into boiling water to change the "rust" form brown to black. It's the chlorine part of the bluing solution / etchant that is required for this colour change to happen, (the metal rust is chlorine based not oxygen based as in normal rusted metal). This method should not be confused with cold (touch-up blue) FWIW --- John303.
 
pie1 said:
Right gist, wrong chemically. Sulfuric acts as a dehydrating reagent removing water formed in the reaction making the reaction of nitronium ions irreversible with the alcohol..
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It seems to me that we were taught in chemistry that the addition of a small amount of sulphuric acid to nitric governed the location of the nitrate radicals on the benzene ring and therefore the properties , when making things like nitro benzine and nitro toluene (as in TNT). Nitro benzine was one of the assigned projects in chemistry class.
It would seem logical that sulphuric acid would form the same function when converting cellulose to nitro cellulose

cheers mooncoon
 
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