where to crimp cast bullets

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brybenn

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Hey all by mistake I ended up with a box of Oregon trail lazer cast silver alloy bullets .459" 405 gr flat nose so I pulled some of my jacketed bullets from my loaded 45/70 and replaced them with these. My problem is that placed the neck right at the first angled groove so I must adjust seating depth. I know to keep the 3 lubed grooves inside the case but is it best to crimp on the flat between the first lubed groove and the shallow angled groove or seat it deeper and crimp on the flat closest to the ogive?
Overall length doesn't really matter as its for a double rifle
 
I have tried and failed. My lee dies won't crimp it there. Not tight enough anyway the bullet slips back in the case. Should I go buy a lee factory crimp die?
 
brybenn said:
I have tried and failed. My lee dies won't crimp it there. Not tight enough anyway the bullet slips back in the case. Should I go buy a lee factory crimp die?
Click to expand...

No.
Get a set of good dies and the seating die will crimp properly.
The shallow angled groove you talk of sounds like the crimping groove, so that is where it should be crimped. Actually, I have crimped lots of cast 405 grain 45-70 in the crimping groove with the seating die, of Lee dies!!!!!!!
 
The lee dies should be able to do it, you may have to remove the seating stem, but I don't think the bullet is long enough to require that. I have to with my 700gr bullets in my 500mag.
 
So the rim would actually curl in under the lip of the bullet. I'll play around a bit more. I have loaded several crimped on the flat that are good and solid but haven't fired them. Thanks for tips
 
Regardless of crimp the brass neck should hold the bullet firmly, the crimp just adds extra hold for making more pressure and withstand recoil.

If you remove the thumb screw and seating stem then all you have left is a crimp die. I seat the bullets so the top of the crimp groove is a couple hairs above the brass rim. Then slowly screw in the die and see how it effects the brass until you get the crimp you want.

Here is a picture of some 38spl crimps I typically do.

2014-08-12220640_zps8a42b031.jpg
 
The problem you are having with your die is that the bullet dia at the first riding ring ( the largest dia ring just ahead of the crimp groove),at .459 is larger than the opening for the bullet to pass through in the seating die after the crimp slope (probably machined to .458). The crimp ring dia in the die pushes the bullet in farther no matter where the seating plug is set at, even if it is backed right off.

Try pushing a bullet thru the die by itself with the seating plug out of the die. I bet it will hang up on the crimping ring, not allowing you to push it thru without considerable force.

I have this problem with my 38-55 seating die in my Lee die set. It will seat 377 bullets but pushes 358 into the case until the case comes up against the crimp ring.

RCBS cowboy die sets have a larger bullet seating passage and will accommodate larger oversized bullets often needed in older rifles.
 
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