Where to get a barrel spiral fluted....

guntech said:
In many cases the 'looks good' is the appeal...

Personally I think spiral fluting looks weird.

I disagree with the way you worded your second paragraph.

Fluting will never add rigidity. A fluted barrel was more rigid before it was fluted. It does however allow a barrel of lighter weight to be as rigid as as an unfluted barrel of the same weight.

Fluting does not increase accuracy, the best fluting can do is accuracy may not suffer. If fluting increased accuracy, every serious Benchrest competitor would be using them.
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I pulled this from the second link to further clarify the rigidity issue. a regular plain barrel is a lot stiffer than a fluted barrel of the same outside diameter; however, a fluted barrel is a lot stiffer than a regular barrel of the same weight.

I will stand by my stmt that it reduces vertical. That doesn't mean it is more accurate but the barrel will have a short sine wave which will allow the reloader to fine tune load easier
My example... if i could squeeze a straight 1.25 dia barrel 10lbs on my F/TR rifle i would ;) however i am limited to a heavy palma barrel profile of 7lbs but i can make that barrel a larger dia and more rigid if i flute a 7.5lbs barrel down to 7lbs

BR..guntech i have looked at this allot and the only conclusion i can come up with is the shear number of barrels that the top BR shooters go through in a session to find that hummer. i have seen rooms with 20 - 30+ barrels that were all chambered and extensively tested to find that 1-3 barrels that shot to expectations. If you were to flute everyone of those barrels would you have more or less the number i would concluded more but at what cost. marginal barrels would shot better but at what point are we reaching dimensioning returns.

Sprial vs. Straight flutes, i would always choose straight. I do not have enough data on spiral fluting

Thanks
Trevor

Thanks Peter I like to think :d i can contribute to the topics i post on
 
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Having helically fluted literally THOUSANDS of barrels, I can't say that we've had any accuracy issues, or complaints from customers. We've passed very stringent accuracy testing for DND with a Quality Assurance rep witnessing every group fired, and the measuring of, not our claims, but documented fact by a third party. We've never had a helically fluted barrel burst either for that matter. So a lot of the hearsay, conjecture and arm-chair expert opinion can end with that. Also, we have a pretty happy following of shooters on here, even a few Coyote's in the .5moa challenge thread.

If I ran the flutes straight, it would remove 12 oz of weight from the barrel. By putting a 'spin' on it, it removes 14 oz. The fluting was primarily done to save weight, almost a pound, from rifles that are carried by brave men that need water/food to function. In this thread is the first person I've heard that didn't like the look of the spiral fluting, but for the most part, people love it.
 
guntech said:
Personally I think spiral fluting looks weird.
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I agree, spiral fluting looks very weird.
And yes, fluted barrel will be stiffer than unfluted one if they weight the same and they are of the same lenght.
IMHO having 1.25"dia of target barrel over chamber for say 308Win is wasting allowable weight limit.
My way of fluting idea (I did quite of few of them, straight ones of course) is to leave as much as possible metal in the middle of barrel before fluting where it does the most good and reduce over the chamber dia to 1.063" to no more than 1.1" with small (say 1/8"wide) ring of larger dia for positive headspacing.
To be on the safe side against barrel bursting and to keep it distorsion free I say the profile of the barrel measured to the bottom of grooves should be at least #3 or "magnum" contour.
GR8 2c worth.
 
Spiral fluting looks kind of like it would unwind and then wind back up when shot, just kidding of course..... Lots of good comments and theories here. The fellows that I know that want fluting really are after it for cosmetic reasons and if they could get a spiral job done they would be all over it. It could be a a good business for someone with the time and machinery. For PGW, have you had any of the many barrels you spiralled warp or otherwise head to the bin due to the operation?
 
Had a chuckle reading some posts... as always, its all about perspective.

Bursting after fluting? - Can you guys flute my mountain rifle? FYI - #1 FW is a 0.550" muzzle and this guy was shooting a 264" cartridge. Do the math and would you put a cutter to that barrel? Not a hope. Very few barrel makers are going to flute sporter contours beyond light cuts, if at all.

Remove lots of material? - we see a bunch of barrels from a range of barrel makers. McGowen is likely the most aggressive when it comes to cutting those flutes and they are NO WHERE near as aggressive as the Coyotes I have seen. See Kriegers site - even their 10 flutes removes AT MOST 8 oz on a long heavy barrel. So you are able to use "one size larger" contour for the same weight. I really doubt you will ever get a fluted barrel from a barrel maker with significant material removed in the fluting process. Takes too long, too much risk from the makers standpoint.

So... pretty much cosmetic.

Trevor60, I understand what is possible if you want to go beyond what the barrel maker is providing and MACHINE the barrel to suit an end goal. I can see where deep flutes can provide a ribbed/supportive structure "around" a smaller contour. That has some very interesting possibilities and also risks. BUT right away, you void any warranty from the barrel maker so.....

And to machine these much larger/deeper flutes, I see cutting time to be pretty substantial otherwise, you run a real risk of introducing other problems in the end result. If nothing else, cost to do is high. I have seen this style of machining done on European match rifles but can't for the life of me find the link.

It most certainly can work.

Sleeving a barrel is another approach. Never heard it being successful but the concept sounds promising.... I guess you could say a CF wrapped barrel is a sleeved barrel (?)

I am approaching this problem from another direction. Got too damn cold to test but I am hoping the direction I am going provides what we want for low cost and simple to install. We shall see.

YMMV

Jerry
 
Z
Trevor60 said:
I pulled this from the second link to further clarify the rigidity issue. a regular plain barrel is a lot stiffer than a fluted barrel of the same outside diameter; however, a fluted barrel is a lot stiffer than a regular barrel of the same weight.

I will stand by my stmt that it reduces vertical. That doesn't mean it is more accurate but the barrel will have a short sine wave which will allow the reloader to fine tune load easier
My example... if i could squeeze a straight 1.25 dia barrel 10lbs on my F/TR rifle i would ;) however i am limited to a heavy palma barrel profile of 7lbs but i can make that barrel a larger dia and more rigid if i flute a 7.5lbs barrel down to 7lbs

BR..guntech i have looked at this allot and the only conclusion i can come up with is the shear number of barrels that the top BR shooters go through in a session to find that hummer. i have seen rooms with 20 - 30+ barrels that were all chambered and extensively tested to find that 1-3 barrels that shot to expectations. If you were to flute everyone of those barrels would you have more or less the number i would concluded more but at what cost. marginal barrels would shot better but at what point are we reaching dimensioning returns.

Sprial vs. Straight flutes, i would always choose straight. I do not have enough data on spiral fluting

Thanks
You obviously don't shoot next to any of the "Top BR shooters "if you did you would know they don't flute barrels because there is no gain , plain and simple ,do you think a competitor who chambers 20-30 barrels a year cares about the cost of fluting , if it improved Aggs we would do it, I did not see one fluted barrel on the line at the nationals this year, if you want to flute your barrels by all means go for it , how ever your statements as they refer to SBR are incorrect
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I don't believe that there is a safety risk in anyway, not with that much material there, but it may or may not effect accuracy to a small degree, which in the case of this rifle, would be acceptable, The buyer want it mostly for looking excellent and shooting well. He wouldn't notice a small change in accuracy, it will not be a BR rifle, nor will it ever compete, just looking to build a rifle that he can call his own, hoping it turns out accurate at the same time.

Wondering if anyone can point me in the direction of someone that would be willing to do the work. If you don't want to post it on here, please send me a PM, it would be appreciated.
 
Ian Robertson said:
Spiral fluting looks kind of like it would unwind and then wind back up when shot, just kidding of course..... Lots of good comments and theories here. The fellows that I know that want fluting really are after it for cosmetic reasons and if they could get a spiral job done they would be all over it. It could be a a good business for someone with the time and machinery. For PGW, have you had any of the many barrels you spiralled warp or otherwise head to the bin due to the operation?
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Have had a couple barrels get hooped due to a cutter breaking, and one to a power outage where the spindle in the CNC dropped a bit and made a divot. Never had a barrel fail to meet accuracy and have to get put in the garbage.

The nicest barrel flutes are done with a 3" or so diameter cutter, cutting on the side profile so there is a nice ramp in and out. This looks nicer than taking a ball nose cutter and plunging down and then traversing. I use a ball nose, but I use a G18 plane to create a nicer entry radius that emulates that of a 3" diameter cutter, but on a helix so it looks good.
 
Spoke directly to the fellow in charge of fluting barrels at Hart, he said there is no safety concern what so ever, the process they put the barrel through to rifle it in first place is far greater then any stress we should be able to put on it. He also said there will likely be no accuracy loss. If there was an accuracy loss at all, it would only be noticeable by a world class BR shooter. He said if it wasn't such a awful process to have a barrel shipped back stateside, he would gladly do it for me, but anyone who is competent with thier machine and is careful should be able to do it without incident.
 
duncansuds said:
I don't believe that there is a safety risk in anyway, not with that much material there, but it may or may not effect accuracy to a small degree, which in the case of this rifle, would be acceptable, The buyer want it mostly for looking excellent and shooting well. He wouldn't notice a small change in accuracy, it will not be a BR rifle, nor will it ever compete, just looking to build a rifle that he can call his own, hoping it turns out accurate at the same time.

Wondering if anyone can point me in the direction of someone that would be willing to do the work. If you don't want to post it on here, please send me a PM, it would be appreciated.
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Talk to Rod at Corlannes, he sends bolts and barrels out for spiral fluting. He gave me a card but can't find it.
 
duncansuds said:
Hello. I have looked through the forum, but could not find an answer. I am looking to get my hart barrel spiral fluted. I am wondering if anyone knows where or who I can can get to do this? The barrel is in near perfect condition, and I am looking to add some good looks to it as well. I am not looking to purchase a new one. Any replies would be greatly appreciated.
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If your barrel can be fluted safely, you may want to consider very shallow flutes like I've seen on some .22.
If you highlight the spiralling by removing the black or putting on some other finish that contrasts the rest
of the barrel, the flutes really look deeper and more pronounced.
Just another idea for you..........
 
The patent in question applies only for "The number of internal spiral grooves equals the number of external spiral grooves." Mover, they have to match the rifling inside as seen on:

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/US6324780B1/US06324780-20011204-D00001.png

Moreover, if you make the depth of external groves the same as internal rifling the patent does not apply, not that you want that anyway.

If you have different number of external groves then you rifling or the external groves do not correspond to the rifling the patent should not apply.

Just saying.
 
paperslayer said:
Believe it or not, ER Shaw in the US holds a patent on helical fluting. Unless it is done by, or under license for ER Shaw, there is the potential for patent infringement.

https://www.google.ca/patents/US632...a=X&ei=3tJ_VPCOLdiyoQTyv4KwBg&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAw
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owlowl said:
The patent in question applies only for "The number of internal spiral grooves equals the number of external spiral grooves." Mover, they have to match the rifling inside as seen on:

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/US6324780B1/US06324780-20011204-D00001.png

Moreover, if you make the depth of external groves the same as internal rifling the patent does not apply, not that you want that anyway.

If you have different number of external groves then you rifling or the external groves do not correspond to the rifling the patent should not apply.

Just saying.
Click to expand...

There are a couple of other points on the patent as well that allow 'artistic expression'. We had this issue reviewed by a prominant firearms patent lawyer in the US, and we are NOT in violation of the ER Shaw patent.....Just sayin'
 
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