Which 12 ga. Slug for Bear Defense?

Which 12 gauge Slug for bear defense?

  • Federal 12 ga. 1 1/4 oz. Slug @ 1520 fps

    Votes: 28 71.8%
  • Federal 12 ga. 1 oz. Slug @ 1610 fps

    Votes: 6 15.4%
  • Federal 12 ga. 7/8 oz. Slug @ 1800 fps

    Votes: 5 12.8%

  • Total voters
    39
The following was copied from Dixie's web page -

In order to better understand the Dixie Terminator Slug, we must turn back the pages of shooting history to the late 1800’s. It was in this period that the famous Paradox Gun went into use. These were high grade double and single barrel guns in gauges from 8 bore to 12 bore. What set these firearms off was that barrels were partially or fully rifled. Records show that the 12 bore fired a 730 gr. slug/bullet at a velocity of 1000 ft.per.sec. (blackpowder) and later the same weight bullet at 1200 ft.per.sec.(smokeless powder). The Paradox Guns were very popular in Africa and India on dangerous game.

The question arises, just how good were these Paradox Guns? It must be remembered that the bullet for the Paradox Gun was made from very hard lead and did not expand, or upset, upon striking the animal. Using methods accepted by today’s ammunition companies, we find a 730 gr. bullet at 1200 ft. per. sec. to have a minimum of 42" of penetration. Using Thornily’s Stopping Power Formula, we find it has a rate of 341. The accepted rate for Grizzly Bear, Lion, Leopard, and Brown Bear is 150. Using Taylor’s KO formula, we have a factor of 93. With all this in mind, I think all would agree that the hunter had a firearm and a load that was adequate! Now that we have discussed the Paradox Gun and ammunition, we move on to show its relationship to the Dixie Terminator. There is a growing interest in shotguns with rifled barrels, especially in areas that require by law their use for big game hunting. There is also a demand in law enforcement agencies and in areas where a powerful backup firearm is needed against potentially dangerous game. I also see a growing demand in heavy cover areas for large game. With this in mind, I began putting my thoughts on paper in the form of an engineering drawing.

W.W. Greener, writing in the 1800’s, stated that a Paradox slug/bullet should be as long as its diameter for stability. This method was called "squaring" the load and was also used in developing the early load line for shotshells. I made the Dixie Terminator .735" long vs. .729" in diameter. "Squared" this way, stabilization can be had in today’s rifled shotgun barrels. We have also learned in designing modern hard cast bullets, for handguns and rifles, that there is a relationship between the bullet’s meplat (flat on the nose) and the permanent wound channel. I put a full .500" meplat on the design. A large lube/relief groove was applied for lubrication and to reduce the area bearing surface on the lands and grooves of the barrel to reduce pressure. Terminator also has a crimp groove for those that wish to load the Terminator in brass shotshells.

After I finished the engineering drawing, I contacted the mold maker. Colorado Shooters Supply makes the famous Hoch molds. The mold was ordered and after production time, it arrived. The mold began dropping perfect slug/bullets after a short break-in. The slug/bullets are cast from very hard bullet alloy and weigh 740 grs.

In order to guarantee deep penetration, we heat treat these slug/bullets into the 20 bhn range. The Terminator has a large lube/relief groove like the original Paradox, but we coat it with Superfine grade dry MoS2 (Molybdenum Disulfide-Moly) for lubrication.



Here is a picture of Terminator (without Moly) beside a typical .44 Magnum bullet. One begins to realize just how massive Terminator is. We must accept the fact that these large slug/bullets are large bore rifle bullets and the shotgun with a rifled barrel is really a big bore rifle on a shotgun action. When we consider this, we begin to realize the potential of a modern loading of the Paradox Slug……..The Dixie Terminator!

The following is the pressure curve tests supplied by Alliant Powder Company:

Dixie Terminator-.729"-740 gr-34 grs Alliant "Steel" powder-1181’/"-7280 psi

Dixie Terminator-.729"-740 gr-36 grs Alliant "Steel" powder-1213’/"-8400 psi

Dixie Terminator-.729"-740 gr-38 grs Alliant "Steel" powder-1281’/"-9850 psi

Dixie Terminator-.729"-740 gr-40 grs Alliant "Steel" powder-1350’/"-10,500 psi

We see here that all loads are within allowable pressures for the 12 gauge 3" Magnum.

The Dixie Terminator is designed to be used in modern firearms having a groove diameter of .727" or larger. The popular Hastings rifled shotgun barrels are-.727" in the grooves & .717" on the lands. The Remington rifled barrels are-.727" in the grooves & .718" on the lands. These two barrels have been used in all our in-house shooting tests

We must remember that the concept behind the Paradox and Terminator was, and is, to give to the shooter a large heavy projectile, at a moderate velocity, capable of dealing with large dangerous game…..pure and simple!
 
Sorry to bump this thread with a slightly off-topic & ignorant question, but I just got back from Wholesale Sports (Edm.) with a pack of 12ga x 3" magnum shells in #00 Buckshot. I was thinking of maybe shooting these at a black bear (never done that before, but hope to quite soon). But seeing how I missed the deadline for the Hunter Host Licence by a good two months (!!!), the point is moot: I don't have to share my guns anymore with my German relatives and can simply use my .303BRIT.

At any rate, was I stupid to think this load would work on blackies? Maybe I should have asked the ammo counter guy for some advice! Oh well, they only cost seven bucks... (didn't realise they came in such small packages either)
 
I'll say it once again - it doesn't matter how heavy the slug is, or the velocity it's travelling, if you don't hit him with it. :rolleyes: When I am way back in the bush, my Marine Magnum has two slugs, then all the rest buckshot. If the slugs miss him, one of the buckshot loads will slow him down.

I have had the experience of facing a pissed off bear, and I was glad I didn't have to prove I could hit him with one bullet.
 
stewarch said:
I'll say it once again - it doesn't matter how heavy the slug is, or the velocity it's travelling, if you don't hit him with it. :rolleyes: When I am way back in the bush, my Marine Magnum has two slugs, then all the rest buckshot. If the slugs miss him, one of the buckshot loads will slow him down.

I have had the experience of facing a pissed off bear, and I was glad I didn't have to prove I could hit him with one bullet.

your crazy then..... DFO here in BC shoots all slugs, and they have some of the most comprehensive data on bear attacks and what it takes to survive one.

buckshot out of a normal defender shotgun spreads at a rate of 1" per every foot traveled...... so at 20 feet you have a 20 inch spread which may be fine for hurting the bear but you will never slow him down enough to save your life.

12 guage slugs (Federal 1.25oz 3") out of my marine magnum 870 and mossberg 590 will effectivly hit a pie plate at 75 yds every time....... proved it yesterday shooting at the range. at 100yds I could hit the plate 4 out of 5 times no problem.

Gatehouse loaned me the 3 bear books by James Gary Shelton who is the head bear guy for the BCWF here in BC. you should read these three books and respect the data and stories this gentleman has acumulated for the last 30 years.

James Gary Shelton
- Bear Attacks : The Deadly Truth
- Bear Attacks 2 : Myth and Reality
- Bear Encounter Survival Guide

after returning gatehouses books I ordered the full set via Chapter.ca and now have my own.... get the books and read them all.

I have worked as a bear watch for tree planters and before reading those books I was living a pipe dream.....

REMEMBER, slugs get the job done and buckshot is bullshyt unless your hunting deer.
 
stewarch said:
I'll say it once again - it doesn't matter how heavy the slug is, or the velocity it's travelling, if you don't hit him with it. :rolleyes: When I am way back in the bush, my Marine Magnum has two slugs, then all the rest buckshot. If the slugs miss him, one of the buckshot loads will slow him down.

I have had the experience of facing a pissed off bear, and I was glad I didn't have to prove I could hit him with one bullet.

just like to add..... so as the bear gets closer your gun is now loaded with buckshot instead of slugs which since the bear is closer you could now deliver with better accuracy.......

stick with slugs and learn how to shoot...... if your shooting at a bear with buckshot and that bear is still 30-40 yds away your pattern for buckshot will be the same as hitting him with a BB gun. a single pellet of buckshot has very little power and even less penetrating power on a heavy target such as a bear.
 
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