Which ammunition is more suitable for Norc CQ311

MosinNagantM44

MosinNagantM44

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 98.4%
58   1   2
Location
GVRD
Since i might be getting an AR clone. I started doing some research on the rifle it self and the ammunition it uses. I noticed .223 and 5.56 is not the same thing. So which ammunition would be more suitable for the CQ rifle.

thanks
 
For what I've been reading the 5.56 have a little more snap to them.

I just got myself an AR clone and I've only shot 60 rounds of .223 through mine without any problems. I've been told that you can shoot .223 in a rifle chambered for 5.56 but not advisable the other way around, but I don't know if its true.




JonnyBender
 
I've heard the same, that it's the same projectile but that the 5.56 generates higher pressures that can damage some .223 guns. I've also heard that a lot of guys routinely fire 5.56 although their manufacturers warn against it, and have had no problems. I'd hate to damage my new toy. I'd hate it even more if I'd voided the warrantee. Check with the manufacturer just to be safe.
 
For the CQ311, use either .223 or 5.56 no problem. The barrel will actually tell you which to use as 5.56 is not easily available with a 55 grn bullet, which is best suited to the slower barrel twist of the CQ rifle.

Scott
 
You CAN shoot 223 in 5.56 but not the other way. Use what is written on the barrel.
It will tell you if the barrel has some mil specs or for civilian use
 
Just spent a minute with the chart for both cartidges. As far as I can tell dimensions are within thousands of each other might just be number rounding for the charts I used. The big difference seems to be max pressures. 55,000 psi for 223 and 62,336 psi for 5.56.
 
The search function is your friend. Also look for 7.62x 51 vs .308, bullpup stocks and pistol mags vs rifle mags vs bolt action vs rimfire. These topics have been beaten to death, then the pieces have been spread out and beaten again. Then a picture of the dead beaten topic was taken, and the picture was beaten repeatedly.
 
NATO uses a 62 grain 5.56x45mm round. You can get the equivelant .223 round for half the price.

My advice to MosinNagantM44 would be to buy the cheapest ammo possible. The CQ311 doesn't really require higher quality ammunition, much like how a Chevette doesn't require premium fuel. It also has a slower twist rate (1:12 to 1:9) which would do better with lower grain bullets, therefore stick with 55 gr. I recommend you grab more bang for your buck. I know Hornady sells some very cheap .223 rounds. Last I saw, Wolverine Supplies sold it, but maybe you could find somewhere local. Ask around.

Important: When you get your rifle, check the barrel or lower receiver. It should state specifically what the rifle is designed for. Only load the ammunition it says. Though .223 and 5.56mm are almost exactly the same thing, a rifle barrelled for .223 could have serious issues with firing 5.56mm while on the other hand a rifle barrelled for 5.56mm can fire .223 with no known issues. That's basically how the rule goes.

Enjoy your AR variant, if you get it. Welcome to the space-age firearm club!
 
Suputin said:
Really? Like what?

Does anyone think the barrel on a .223 is somehow made of some kind of inferior metal compared to the barrel on a 5.56? Are those .223 barrels so much thinner that they cannot contain the extra pressure?
Click to expand...

That's not the issue at all... The 5.56mm NATO or mil-spec chamber has a longer leade than a .223 or SAAMI chamber. The SAAMI chamber is only required to be proof tested to the lower SAAMI chamber pressures.

And 5.56 and .223 brass are not the same (internally)... Externally they are almost the same (couple thou difference) but the 5.56 brass is thicker (less case volume) so don't drop your .223 powder charge into a 5.56 case and expect it to be safe, 'cause it likely won't be...

Don't go by what's stamped on the lower receiver... it doesn't indicate what chamber the barrel has cut in it. Go with what's stamped on the barrel itself to determine what chamber a given rifle has.

SAAMI themselves regard 5.56 in a .223 chamber as an "unsafe arms and ammunition combination". See their web site at:

http://www.saami.org/Unsafe_Combinations.cfm (scroll down to centerfire rifle)
 
.223 vs 5.56 & .308 vs 7.62 not being interchanged is a myth. .223/.308 is the commerical equivilant to the military 5.56/7.62. they for all intensive purposes are the same rounds. they have been interchanged for decades without problems, its only since the internet the slight differance (not enough to worry) has becom a issue. i would say barrel twist and grain weight of the round is more to think about. differant rates of twist have differant grains that work best and safe. for a 1-12 twist rate (cq311) 55gr and lower, 1-7 twist rate 70gr and higher, 1-9 twist rate 55gr to 69gr.
 
Remember that SAAMI is an acronym for "liability lawyers protecting the asses of the ammunition and components manufacturers under the guise of a industry council that was assembled voluntarily so it wouldn't be legislated" Honestly, shooting 5.56 in a .223 chamber will be harder on your brass, perhaps to the point that it will not be reloadable, but it won't cause a thermonuclear detonation in any gun of good quality.

Besides, you'll have a hell of a time finding 5.56 out there (there is a war on you know)
 
Short Knife Johnson said:
The military 5.56x45mm loading I am told has a different load than the civilian .223 Winchester. Different bullets weight. Heavier I think.
Click to expand...

Sorry to point a possible mistake out but I believe you mean .223 Remington for the cartridge type in a .223 AR not winchester wich you may be refering to the brand name of your .223 Remington ammo. We wouldnt want to be giving a newbie incorrect information correct me if I am wrong.

And yes you are correct the weight of the bullet is different but so is the pressure. From what I was told by a AR enthusiast is that you can shoot .223 Remington in a gun chambered for 5.56 Nato but not vice versa as the pressure increase in the 5.56 can have serious affects on the .223 chambered upper. Also I believe the heavier grain bullet of the 5.56 Nato is for a barrell with a different twist rate than the barell for a 55gr .223 Remington.

I apologize if I have repeated anything anyone else has said.
 
kenjuudo said:
That's not the issue at all... The 5.56mm NATO or mil-spec chamber has a longer leade than a .223 or SAAMI chamber. The SAAMI chamber is only required to be proof tested to the lower SAAMI chamber pressures.

And 5.56 and .223 brass are not the same (internally)... Externally they are almost the same (couple thou difference) but the 5.56 brass is thicker (less case volume) so don't drop your .223 powder charge into a 5.56 case and expect it to be safe, 'cause it likely won't be...

Don't go by what's stamped on the lower receiver... it doesn't indicate what chamber the barrel has cut in it. Go with what's stamped on the barrel itself to determine what chamber a given rifle has.

SAAMI themselves regard 5.56 in a .223 chamber as an "unsafe arms and ammunition combination". See their web site at:

http://www.saami.org/Unsafe_Combinations.cfm (scroll down to centerfire rifle)
Click to expand...

Ok, I see what you're getting at, and 5-10 years ago I'd have been in lock step with you, but in the last 5-10 years most people trotting off to the local gunshop to buy some cheapo plinking ammo have opened the AE box to find brass clearly marked as either NATO or US mil - is this to be assumed to be 5.56, or .223? What load was assembled into it, at what pressure? I'm not in possesion of a chronograph but I'm sure that if the difference was enough to cause issues the factories would completely segregate the two lines.
 
That's not the issue at all... The 5.56mm NATO or mil-spec chamber has a longer leade than a .223 or SAAMI chamber. The SAAMI chamber is only required to be proof tested to the lower SAAMI chamber pressures.
Click to expand...

That is EXACTLY the issue. So what if a 556 chamber is proof tested to a higher pressure. Do you really think the barrel (the part that ultimately contains all that pressure) is any different from the 556 chamber to the 223 chamber?

And 5.56 and .223 brass are not the same (internally)... Externally they are almost the same (couple thou difference) but the 5.56 brass is thicker (less case volume) so don't drop your .223 powder charge into a 5.56 case and expect it to be safe, 'cause it likely won't be...
Click to expand...

Speaking of totally NOT the point. Nobody every mentioned reloading. And even when one goes to reload, it will be blindingly obvious that suddenly the powder charge is way higher in the case is not spilling over when using military cases.

From what I was told by a AR enthusiast is that you can shoot .223 Remington in a gun chambered for 5.56 Nato but not vice versa as the pressure increase in the 5.56 can have serious affects on the .223 chambered upper.
Click to expand...

My issue with this is that everyone accepts this "common knowlege" without question. Did you ever think to ask, "Why?" Just what kind of damage do we think will occur? There is a significant safety factor built into every rifle.
 
I have never heard a single <confirmed> report of a firearm being damaged by mixing 223 and 556. Modern guns are so massively overbuilt that I can't see that ever becoming an issue. I <suppose> the gun may wear faster when using 556 however, but it should not fail.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom