Which CGN supporting dealer is going to be my cheapest bet to order a SA M1A from?

This gets old

I go on the US M14 site as often as this one. You won't see much support at all for Norincos there. Yes a few claim to have had troubles with their M1A's but most of those are very happy with the support they have recieved. Generally complaints are about extractors. You can fix this issue yourself if you have it. Most don't.

You know a few years ago Mercedes had the worst customer satisfaction rating of any auto manufacturer. Is that because they had the worst car? No it's because their owners had the highest expectations. If I paid $500 for a new rifle I'd be F*$king thrilled when it didn't self destruct in my face when I shot it. Particularily knowing it was assembled by teenagers who can't drive. I'd be choked if my $2000+ rifle worked less than perfect for me.

There is a lot more to steel than the process to shape and harden. Norinco recievers are forged out of lesser grade steel than an M1A. Springfields and USGI rifles are 8620 I believe and Chinese rifles are 5100. But does it really matter? GI rifles were built to fire 400,000+ rounds. You'll never get there. It's not an issue.

Buy Yourself a Springfield rifle and enjoy it as I enjoy mine. And the rest of you just help this guy with the question he asked. He's wondering where he can get an M1A for the best price not a project for next to nothing.
 
Seafury said:
I go on the US M14 site as often as this one. You won't see much support at all for Norincos there. Yes a few claim to have had troubles with their M1A's but most of those are very happy with the support they have recieved. Generally complaints are about extractors. You can fix this issue yourself if you have it. Most don't.

You know a few years ago Mercedes had the worst customer satisfaction rating of any auto manufacturer. Is that because they had the worst car? No it's because their owners had the highest expectations. If I paid $500 for a new rifle I'd be F*$king thrilled when it didn't self destruct in my face when I shot it. Particularily knowing it was assembled by teenagers who can't drive. I'd be choked if my $2000+ rifle worked less than perfect for me.

There is a lot more to steel than the process to shape and harden. Norinco recievers are forged out of lesser grade steel than an M1A. Springfields and USGI rifles are 8620 I believe and Chinese rifles are 5100. But does it really matter? GI rifles were built to fire 400,000+ rounds. You'll never get there. It's not an issue.

Buy Yourself a Springfield rifle and enjoy it as I enjoy mine. And the rest of you just help this guy with the question he asked. He's wondering where he can get an M1A for the best price not a project for next to nothing.
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I do agree with you for the most part but....
Well known and documented SA inc issues have been with bolts, receivers, hammers, extractors, firing pins ect There is in fact a very large group of m14 fans in the U.S. who despise springfield armory inc , partly for the QC issues over the years, bolt recalls out of spec or under machined receivers and mostly because they used the name springfield in the first place. unsuspectiong folks just assumed springfield meant springfeild armoury the U.S. military armory where the m14 was born and many hard core M14 enthusiasts despise them for it.
check with Different but chinese receivers have been tested for dimension and metaleurgy and are in fact made from "8620 or equivalent" , which passes the USGI criteria. Ron smith himself uses them for full boat SEI builds, I've read about it and seen many pics of thier chinese receiver builds.

there is nothing wrong with expressing opinion in a thread like this, it does after all provide insight that some folks looking for a rifle never may have considered. Now if we trash on someone because they chose an norinco..... or the same goes for a springfield..... then we need to stop for a minute hehehe

but no ones slaggin anyones choices...... and if the man wants an M1A , they are out there to be had.
 
However

This exerpt from M14 Rifles by Different written in 2002.

"American receivers are made of 8620 steel and the Chinese receivers made of 5100 steel. 8620 steel contains trace percentages of molybdenum, manganese, nickel and chromium. 5100 steel is a chromium alloy steel. Both are suitable for hardening using heat treatment."

In oil and gas we have access to Chinese steel. It is very inconsistent. In fact my next door neighbor was Shell Canada's material testing lead and has spent a lot of time in China looking at their product and process. He says you have to be very carefull and continually test their products.

Yes SAI rifles have well documented issues in the past which have been addressed. What baffles me is that having read considerable literature about M14 rifles it is well documented that Chinese rifles have had many flaws, some that make them down right dangerous to shoot and because they are cheap all is forgiven.

You expect lots from a mercedes and little from a Hyundai.

It is a common thing to see people on this site recomend to others they buy a Norinco attend Hungry's clinic and have the rifle smithed by Thomas. By all accounts the docs work is good and I've been to Hungry's clinic which is very helpful. This guy isn't asking for that. He wants to know where he can buy an M1A. If I bought a Norinco I would definately have someone capable check it out before using it.
 
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Seafury said:
This exerpt from M14 Rifles by Different written in 2002.

"American receivers are made of 8620 steel and the Chinese receivers made of 5100 steel. 8620 steel contains trace percentages of molybdenum, manganese, nickel and chromium. 5100 steel is a chromium alloy steel. Both are suitable for hardening using heat treatment."

In oil and gas we have access to Chinese steel. It is very inconsistent. In fact my next door neighbor was Shell Canada's material testing lead and has spent a lot of time in China looking at their product and process. He says you have to be very carefull and continually test their products.

Yes SAI rifles have well documented issues in the past which have been addressed. What baffles me is that having read considerable literature about M14 rifles it is well documented that Chinese rifles have had many flaws, some that make them down right dangerous to shoot and because they are cheap all is forgiven.

You expect lots from a mercedes and little from a Hyundai.

It is a common thing to see people on this site recomend to others they buy a Norinco attend Hungry's clinic and have the rifle smithed by Thomas. By all accounts the docs work is good and I've been to Hungry's clinic which is very helpful. This guy isn't asking for that. He wants to know where he can buy an M1A. If I bought a Norinco I would definately have someone capable check it out before using it.
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Lee has himself said that's wrong. Read his 2009 RHAD That 5100 thing shows up here every few months. Also the US forums only have the old pre 89 norcs to write about, different animal than what we get here in Canada nowadays. The early ones had issues for sure but not no more.
If looking for an M1A, I would suggest getting an older one that was built with usgi parts if you're going to shell out that kind of money.
 
Although I can't tell you when exactly the issues for M1A's became a problem or were solved my 2002 and 2004 rifles have forged bolts and work fine. They are well finished and have smooth running actions. They both pass the tilt test with flying colors. Their sights are properly aligned. The stocks are of excellent wood.

Cast parts are not a bad thing. I remember years ago when we were hot rodders the accepted standard of the day was forged cranks, rods and pistons. Then some guys started making big horsepower with cast cranks. Reliable power. It changed everyones thinking. It also cost less.

All of you know that North America can't compete with China due to labor costs. That's if price is your number one concern. Generally however we still win the quality game. I've seen the light on the Norincos and understand their popularity. I get using a Norinco reciever for a build. For me, I want to buy SAI. This guy does also.
 
I really like my M1A - all in all an excellent rifle that I really like owning. Is it better than a Norc ? I think so. Is it five times better than a Norc as price difference would imply ? No it is not. If someone can afford an M1A I say go for it.
 
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