U sir deserve a beer nd an applause
Which handgun models are the best for tiny hands?
- Thread starter blackstars
- Start date
U sir deserve a beer nd an applause
I have wide palms and short fingers, I find that generally 1911's fit me best. I also shoot many other handguns, and two others that fit small hands very well are the Star BM/PD pistols and the S&W 3rd gen semiautos. I have a 4046 and 4516 that fit my hands quite well, though better with the factory Delrin grips then the aftermarket Hogues. Fwiw- dan
Well said Mr. Canuck. Many of us could add many equally simple real world examples. I'll offer another and then bail out after making a suggestion.
I drive a large Dodge "dually" pick up truck equipped with a fifth wheel hitch as I tow my home from place to place. I've been driving for over 50 years so I suppose I could handle the truck sitting on an orange crate. However, I wouldn't be comfortable and the controls wouldn't necessarily be easily accessible. I drive long distances with 40 feet of trailer behind me so I'm sure fatigue would kick in quickly as would the quality of my driving which would impact others.
Thankfully, the truck came equipped with large very adjustable seats. Both the pedals and the steering can also be adjusted to improve the driving position, improve access to important controls and ultimately my safety and that of other drivers on the road. Why in the world would I not take advantage of these features? Note that they don't change my core competence as a driver but rather enhance it and allow me to drive without excessive fatigue and wear on my older and well-used body.
Now if I transfer the discussion to my choice of firearms and assuming my skills and abilities don't change, why would I not choose a handgun that feels good in my hand and naturally points to where I would like the round to go without twisting my hand and wrist excessively. Since I already own several very adequate handguns for my purposes, why would the next one not conform to my creature comforts and pleasures?
We have been down this road before and other routes that have similarities. When Mr. TDC mounts the dias, puts his hands on the pulpit and gazes down on the great unwashed in his consistently arrogant and disrespectful manner, the discussion almost always heads south and I suspect becomes less agreeable to those who are interested in a variety of opinion. There is a solution if we were to exercise some discipline and unity. As soon as Mr. TDC has made his pronouncements, the rest of us could simply stop posting on that thread. The member who last posted could start another similar thread and create a path for the rest of us to follow. It's not perfect but could produce satisfaction for any of us who want to avoid the inevitable.
With that, I take my leave and wish most of you a happy good night.
pisces-guy
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- West Kelowna, B.C.
Ruger SR9, and the Boberg XR-9
I have tiny, spindly girl hands with piano fingers. I shoot L- and N-frame S&W revolvers mostly. You can learn to shoot anything, OP, and you may be surprised that a big gun might actually help you out. They give you more surface area to grasp. That was my finding anyway. Just make sure you can reach the trigger comfortably. That's the only real serious ergonomic consideration I have with handguns. In fact, some of the slim guns like the Beretta Neos were way too small for me and felt weird. I like the hand to be filled.
That said, when it comes to small handguns, this guy is spot on. The Browning is an excellent pistol and worth every penny. Some people balk at spending much on something that's "just a .22" but I think that's absurd. I find I shoot my .22s more than anything other than maybe my competition guns, so why wouldn't I spend enough to get premium pieces? I'll never understand spending two or three times as much on my magnum handgun I shoot ten times per range trip than I do on my .22 LR plinker that eats through tens of thousands of rounds.
^ UNDERRATED POST ^
That said, when it comes to small handguns, this guy is spot on. The Browning is an excellent pistol and worth every penny. Some people balk at spending much on something that's "just a .22" but I think that's absurd. I find I shoot my .22s more than anything other than maybe my competition guns, so why wouldn't I spend enough to get premium pieces? I'll never understand spending two or three times as much on my magnum handgun I shoot ten times per range trip than I do on my .22 LR plinker that eats through tens of thousands of rounds.
^ UNDERRATED POST ^
I've tried an SR 9 and was impressed. The trigger was much better than I expected and the gun is a very good value for what it is. I've yet to get my hands on a Boberg L but that would be my choice too. The manufacturer acknowledges that it's ammo sensitive so just stick to the recommended brands and it should be reliable. I usually dislike small guns but the elegant design and function of the Boberg are almost irresistible. The only criterion that keeps me looking is that my guns have to be fun to shoot. The jury is still out at this point.
pisces-guy
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- West Kelowna, B.C.
You can also get stainless parts for the SR-9, and do a bit of polishing, and make it into a very nice pistol for a small additional investment. The pertinent information is on rugerforum.com. The Boberg is reliable with the ammo that the maker specifies...it's just a bit pricey. Another handgun that's very good for smaller hands is the Ruger SP-101...with the factory grips your pinkie is dangling, but with Pachmayr RSP/C Compac grips installed, the SP-101 is a great little revolver, that shoots .357 ammo comfortably.
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My biggest problem with Glock haters, is that they don't know how to shoot and most have never shot a Glock. That's called blind ignorant opinion being passed off as fact. These people are what I call, clowns..
This is, if you will allow me, a stupid statement TDC and you know better or should. Get off your high horse for a minute and rejoin the real world.
If a shooter decides he/she wants a pistol or revolver that "feels" good in their hands then it has everything , to do with that shooters choice of a handgun. It maybe the only reason why he buys the gun he buys. It may even impact on how well the shooter shoots the gun. Who is to know? You?
You select a firearm for a purpose, if that purpose is comfort and not performance, then don't whine when you can't hit sh*t with it, its comfortable and that's all that matters. If you're selecting a pistol for the sole reason of comfort, you're in the wrong discipline. The fact remains, that selecting a firearm based on comfort has nothing to do with marksmanship. Sight alignment, trigger squeeze, and follow through are what matters. All of which have nothing to do with how the pistol "feels". Uninformed ignorant dribble like "feel" is what people say to make themselves sound more informed/educated than they really are about the subject of handguns and marksmanship.
The fact the shooter may shoot just as well with another gun, a Glock for instance, matters not. I have several handguns all of which I shoot about as good as my physical abilities will allow. All were bought either for intended purpose, because I fell for the advertising, some out of curiosity and all because the felt good in my hands. Why buy something that is uncomfortable to shoot. I don't own a Glock, a 500 S&W or a 460 Revolver. Why? Because they were uncomfortable to shoot. One was downright hurtful due to recoil. The Glock you are so fond of always naturally pointed high in my hands along with being uncomfortable to hold due to the rather large hump at the lower portion of the grip Glock seems to think we all need to put up with. Is tipping your wrist down to bring the gun horizontal one of your fundamentals? If it is then it is something I don't have to do with my other handguns.
Glocks are not uncomfortable, they're different, they feel weird. For the uneducated masses who think they know sh*t, they immediately dismiss them as bad or poor. Heaven forbid people seek training and apply themselves in learning marksmanship. That takes time and effort, and todays society is about immediate gratification. The grip angle is exactly the same as a 1911, but you'll rarely hear anyone knock the "perfect" pistol that JMB designed. Who then promptly designed the HiPower as a more refined pistol based on the 1911, but its the 1911 that is the holy grail to manyThe "odd" feel of a Glock and the grip it requires to shoot it are all designed around recoil management, bio mechanics and yes, ergonomics. With your wrist angled forward, some would say locked, it provides a more stable platform for recoil mitigation and aids in directing recoil energy into the arm, shoulder and upper body. Your wrist like any joint is weak in comparison to the appendage it is attached. Locking that joint inline with your forearm reduces stress on it(the wrist) and is a predictable and repeatable position. Holding your revolver(or pistol) with a vertical wrist orientation like a fist isn't as stable it isn't consistent nor does it aid in recoil management. Add in the high bore axis of a revolver and you can clearly see why they experience severe muzzle flip. Have a look at the grip angle on Olympic pistols, its very similar to that of a Glock, and they run contoured(the big bump) on the heel of the grip as well.
I know you like and shoot Glocks so in some ways I feel your statements are almost a reflection upon what you shoot as in "if you can shoot a Glock you can shoot any gun" a comment I find amusing in the extreme. Is the Glock really that hard to learn to shoot? I know you have to tip the barrel down due to it's needless desire to aim skyward in most hands but...
Follow my posts Bob and seek training. Glocks aren't difficult to shoot, they're unforgiving to poor fundamentals, as in they don't cover up your inability to apply them consistently like say a 1911 or other heavy, single action gun. For someone who hasn't a clue about the fundamentals yes, they're extremely difficult to shoot. Hence the ignorant comments about how Glocks suck. It doesn't matter what brand the firearm is, if it doesn't perform(which isn't the reason people buy guns right? They buy them for "fun") its always the gun, its never the shooter. If you had any common sense you'd clearly see that can't be the case. If some can't shoot brand X and some can, then by deductive reasoning it can't be the tool that's inconsistent, it must be the user, as the tool remains constant.
Most here can drive a car. Once you learn the fundamentals on how to drive a car, you can drive most cars. That said, we all don't drive the same car. Some of us like sporty cars, others prefer sedans and god bless those who like Dodge Caravans. God knows Chrysler has sold millions of them. One of the many reasons we buy what we buy is because we feel comfortable driving the car we choose. Deal with it. So to guns.
Great analogy Bob. We can all function a car, we can't "drive" the car to its potential. That being said, there are many many poor drivers out there. Time and time again we hear on the news that "XYZ road is dangerous or the most deadly" really? The road doesn't move, so are the accidents caused by the stationary asphalt or the dumb sh*ts who are texting, talking, gawking off, drunk, high or otherwise distracted?? Think long and hard before you answer.... Again, smart people buy vehicles that fill their specific needs first. A family of 4 would be best served with a sedan, wagon, minivan, even a quad cab pickup. If you have a family of 4 and bought a 2 seat sports car, you are f**king moron. If you bought that sports car as a single guy(or gal) and proceed to find its top end on the local highway/freeway, you are a f**king moron.
How many professional race car drivers are self taught??? The answer is zero. How many professional drivers started late to the game??? The answer is zero. Not saying we all need to spend our lifetime practicing and learning how to drive or shoot. I'm simply saying, that picking up a pistol and firing a few hundred rounds does not make you an informed/experienced shooter nor a good one. To take such trivial experience with the absence of education and apply it to a discussion about marksmanship is simply comical.
Take care
Bob
ps BTW this is a counter to your statement so you can no longer post the open ended statement "that nobody can..."I just did!
You posted Bob, you didn't support your opinions. I'm in the bold for those who struggle to follow along.
Again, I'm in the black.
TDC
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It is thin at 0.96", but that puts it only .22" thinner than a double stack glock, which in a free country carries over twice the rounds. Even in this country you get nearly 1.5x the capacity. The poor reviews, high price, and unproven design are huge detractors.
Fun fact. A 1911 is 1.27"-1.34" thick. Thats fat for a single stack.
TDC
r34skyline
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
The boberg is picky on ammo, hideously expensive, mags are near impossible to find, and is an absolute #### to clear if it has an internal malfunction, and has an unproven service life. All it has going for it is the compact size. Get a threaded barrel hk45ct or a usp ct if you want a smaller pistol.
Against my better judgement, I just scanned this thread from the beginning. Of the over 100 posts by other than TDC, not one, I repeat not one was anything close to being a Glock Hater. Someone had the audacity to ask if a SIG P-220 would fit the bill for the OP to which TDC trashed the P-220. There are many 1000's of people who carry the P-220 either privately or in service that would support the SIG as a fine pistol. But to TDC the bore axis is too high, the gun is too light and the grip is too long for it to be a candidate. Moreover the 45 ACP it uses is a heavy recoil cartridge. So much for the P-220 as TDC has spoken.
Despite 100 posts most of which were genuinely trying to address the OP's question, TDC has managed to trash yet another thread. What a miserable existence he must lead being surrounded by incompetents, fools and clowns. However, that is by his choice and because of his attitudes. I have no sympathy for him. I've been privileged to know a great many exceptional people in a very wide range of activities and pursuits that require excellent skills, knowledge and attitudes in order to excel. Not one of these exceptional people has resorted to embellishing his position on the backs of others the way TDC does over and over again.
Naturally this thread is a mix of advice some of which may easily be valid for the OP's purposes. Despite TDC's constant efforts to drive these threads into the ground, I'm sure there are others, myself included who continue to learn from the generosity and goodwill of others. Thanks to all of you who continue to contribute despite the effort it takes to overcome the negativity.
Despite 100 posts most of which were genuinely trying to address the OP's question, TDC has managed to trash yet another thread. What a miserable existence he must lead being surrounded by incompetents, fools and clowns. However, that is by his choice and because of his attitudes. I have no sympathy for him. I've been privileged to know a great many exceptional people in a very wide range of activities and pursuits that require excellent skills, knowledge and attitudes in order to excel. Not one of these exceptional people has resorted to embellishing his position on the backs of others the way TDC does over and over again.
Naturally this thread is a mix of advice some of which may easily be valid for the OP's purposes. Despite TDC's constant efforts to drive these threads into the ground, I'm sure there are others, myself included who continue to learn from the generosity and goodwill of others. Thanks to all of you who continue to contribute despite the effort it takes to overcome the negativity.
TDC the grip angles of popular pistols are noted here:
Glock 112 degrees
1911 110 degrees
SIG 105 degrees
M&P 105 degrees
Hi Power 105 degrees
CZ 108 degrees
Tanfpglio 108 degrees
The latter three have the most comfortable grips I have ever wrapped my hands around. Only two of the grips have a hump at the bottom of the grip. The Glock and the A1 version of the 1911, a grip most modern manufacturers ignore. They produce the original flat grip designed by JMB.
I would be remiss in not indicating I dislike the A1 grip due to the hump hitting the heel of my palm as much as the Glock grip which does the same thing. My 1911's have the flat back strap.
Take Care
Bob
Glock 112 degrees
1911 110 degrees
SIG 105 degrees
M&P 105 degrees
Hi Power 105 degrees
CZ 108 degrees
Tanfpglio 108 degrees
The latter three have the most comfortable grips I have ever wrapped my hands around. Only two of the grips have a hump at the bottom of the grip. The Glock and the A1 version of the 1911, a grip most modern manufacturers ignore. They produce the original flat grip designed by JMB.
I would be remiss in not indicating I dislike the A1 grip due to the hump hitting the heel of my palm as much as the Glock grip which does the same thing. My 1911's have the flat back strap.
Take Care
Bob
Thank you Bob. I have a 1911, a SIG P-210 and most recently two Tanfoglios. The Tanfos are perfect for me. The grips are very thin. (aluminum Xtreme models) Perhaps not coincidentally, the Length Of Pull on all four pistols is close to identical. Not surprisingly all four of these pistols "fit" me quite well. The Tanfoglio profile is best for me because the sides of the grips are very flat. This flat surface fits my strong hand palm and helps to orient the pistol in line with my forearm squarely.
You list the High Power as well and that's not a huge coincidence. If you look at the P-210 which was designed in the late 40's you can see a lot of shared geometry with the CZ lines as well as the HP. The P-210 has a great reputation with shooting enthusiasts around to world. Some people who regard themselves as authorities say it is the best production pistol in the history of the craft. Everyone that shoots mine is impressed. Happily, when my hand wraps around one of the Tanfos, my mind and body reenter that state where everything is as it should be.
I think I agree with you that the flat MSH plays a part in the feel and the way these pistols marry so well with the geometry of most hands and wrists. Pick up any one of my four guns and the front sight lands on the X without much adjustment. In terms of speed, the P-210 is slower as I think the rounded soft grip is more tolerant of rotation in the hand.
The Tanfoglios are underrated as an option in the games. They handle very similarly to the CZ's that are so common in IPSC. We are fortunate to have an excellent importer and supplier for the Tanfo line in Freedom Ventures. While not perfect without tweaking, the Tanfos are very comparable to the STI's but at lesser cost. The new Xtreme Tanfos marketed by Eric Grauffel are being very well received. I bought the lesser cost Limited Pro as well but then upgraded it with all Xtreme internals. If was a lot of fun to do and IMO I ended up with an excellent pistol that is personally mine because I did the work with my rookie hands.
The OP never did say much about his intended purposes for his pistol, but if shooting in the games is in the plan, a good look at the CZ's and maybe the Tanfoglio options would not be a waste of time.
You list the High Power as well and that's not a huge coincidence. If you look at the P-210 which was designed in the late 40's you can see a lot of shared geometry with the CZ lines as well as the HP. The P-210 has a great reputation with shooting enthusiasts around to world. Some people who regard themselves as authorities say it is the best production pistol in the history of the craft. Everyone that shoots mine is impressed. Happily, when my hand wraps around one of the Tanfos, my mind and body reenter that state where everything is as it should be.
I think I agree with you that the flat MSH plays a part in the feel and the way these pistols marry so well with the geometry of most hands and wrists. Pick up any one of my four guns and the front sight lands on the X without much adjustment. In terms of speed, the P-210 is slower as I think the rounded soft grip is more tolerant of rotation in the hand.
The Tanfoglios are underrated as an option in the games. They handle very similarly to the CZ's that are so common in IPSC. We are fortunate to have an excellent importer and supplier for the Tanfo line in Freedom Ventures. While not perfect without tweaking, the Tanfos are very comparable to the STI's but at lesser cost. The new Xtreme Tanfos marketed by Eric Grauffel are being very well received. I bought the lesser cost Limited Pro as well but then upgraded it with all Xtreme internals. If was a lot of fun to do and IMO I ended up with an excellent pistol that is personally mine because I did the work with my rookie hands.
The OP never did say much about his intended purposes for his pistol, but if shooting in the games is in the plan, a good look at the CZ's and maybe the Tanfoglio options would not be a waste of time.
