which m14's are labeled "M305" ?
- Thread starter axxxel
- Start date
Oh I'm sorry I didn't mention this: I'm from Sweden. We have a different and more or equally weird system for firearms permission.
In order to get our version of the PAL I need to prove that the m305 is based on the m1 garand, because the m1 garand was designed before 1942. If the name is too much like the m14, it will seem as if it's based on the m14 (only) which was adopted by in military service and designed after 1942.
I know, it's retarded. The point is that if I can make the firearms officer understand that the m305 (and the m14, but let's not talk about that because it complicates things) is based on the m1 Garand then it's probable that I'll get a license.
If it says m305 on the gun anywhere then I can refer to the gun I want to buy as "m305"(for political reasons) and when the customs check out the gun in Sweden to see if it's the same as the one I've gotten a license for everything will be fine.
In order to get our version of the PAL I need to prove that the m305 is based on the m1 garand, because the m1 garand was designed before 1942. If the name is too much like the m14, it will seem as if it's based on the m14 (only) which was adopted by in military service and designed after 1942.
I know, it's retarded. The point is that if I can make the firearms officer understand that the m305 (and the m14, but let's not talk about that because it complicates things) is based on the m1 Garand then it's probable that I'll get a license.
If it says m305 on the gun anywhere then I can refer to the gun I want to buy as "m305"(for political reasons) and when the customs check out the gun in Sweden to see if it's the same as the one I've gotten a license for everything will be fine.
Non-restricted is non-restricted. Restricted is restricted. Prohibited is prohibited.
Any new-manufacture M-14, M-1A, M-14S, or M-305 that you will find for sale will have been originally manufactured without any provision for the naughty bits and will be incapable of fully-automatic fire. If the barrel is USGI-length it will be non-restricted. If it is newly-manufactured and assembled with a new 16" barrel it will be restricted, because of the barrel length.
(In Canada.)
Any new-manufacture M-14, M-1A, M-14S, or M-305 that you will find for sale will have been originally manufactured without any provision for the naughty bits and will be incapable of fully-automatic fire. If the barrel is USGI-length it will be non-restricted. If it is newly-manufactured and assembled with a new 16" barrel it will be restricted, because of the barrel length.
(In Canada.)
Yes, but which ones are m-14 or m-14s and which one is called m305?
Restricted, prohibited, non-banned, AWB, non-restricted is all blah blah blah to me, I'm just looking for an m14 type rifle that says something else than m14 (I don't mind if it says m14, it just has to have another name as well) on it and in the papers so that it won't look as if I'm buying a military rifle. Which I'm not, by the way. This procedure is completely legal all the way through. In Sweden. I'm in Sweden
Does the m305 have m305 stamped anywhere on them? If a guy is selling his m-14s, is it also called an m305, does it say both m305 and m14s?
I'm planning for a purchase but if the gun doesn't say m305 then I might not be able to buy it.
I know it sounds stupid as hell but that's because it is. I didn't make the rules, the social democratic workers' party that ruled my nation for the most part of the 20th century did.
Thank you for your help.
Restricted, prohibited, non-banned, AWB, non-restricted is all blah blah blah to me, I'm just looking for an m14 type rifle that says something else than m14 (I don't mind if it says m14, it just has to have another name as well) on it and in the papers so that it won't look as if I'm buying a military rifle. Which I'm not, by the way. This procedure is completely legal all the way through. In Sweden. I'm in Sweden
Does the m305 have m305 stamped anywhere on them? If a guy is selling his m-14s, is it also called an m305, does it say both m305 and m14s?
I'm planning for a purchase but if the gun doesn't say m305 then I might not be able to buy it.
I know it sounds stupid as hell but that's because it is. I didn't make the rules, the social democratic workers' party that ruled my nation for the most part of the 20th century did.
Thank you for your help.
I'll explain what I'm trying to do in detail and perhaps you'll see why I'm asking for such an irrelevant detail.
1. Apply for license in Sweden. All information about the gun type I'm buying must be availible to an "arms expert"
bsFlag at the police. This guy must understand that the gun I'm buying isn't based on a design made after 1942 and adopted as a service rifle. I will declare that the m305 is based on the m1 Garand (which is true and not deceitful). The law isn't equipped to deal with cases like this because the m305 is ofcourse really based on the m14 (post-42 => illegal), but the m14 is based on the ma Garand (pre-42=> legal). If I even mention the m14 in my long and fact-filled application it will be while pointing out the important differences between the gun I want and the m14, such as the fact that it is very impossible to make the m305 into a full-auto because of the lack of holes in the receiver, the different trigger et.c. If the gun I want is called something along the lines of m14, this won't work. I need to call it something else.
2. Show my approved license to Canadian authories and make a permanent export. Give money to bureaucrats and UPS.
3. Have the gun examined by Swedish customs. The swedish customs officer has nothing to do with licensing, but he must make sure that the gun that has arrived is the same as the one that I've gotten a license for. This is why it has to say m305 on the gun itself. If it says "m14 deadly assault bank robber machine gun death ray killer baby-eater" nobody cares, because the license is already approved for an m305 rifle. An m305 rifle labeled with whatever is still an m305 rifle.
4. Get gun and shoot lots and lots of paper targets and deer. And wild boar. And moose. And perhaps shorten the barrel.
1. Apply for license in Sweden. All information about the gun type I'm buying must be availible to an "arms expert"
bsFlag at the police. This guy must understand that the gun I'm buying isn't based on a design made after 1942 and adopted as a service rifle. I will declare that the m305 is based on the m1 Garand (which is true and not deceitful). The law isn't equipped to deal with cases like this because the m305 is ofcourse really based on the m14 (post-42 => illegal), but the m14 is based on the ma Garand (pre-42=> legal). If I even mention the m14 in my long and fact-filled application it will be while pointing out the important differences between the gun I want and the m14, such as the fact that it is very impossible to make the m305 into a full-auto because of the lack of holes in the receiver, the different trigger et.c. If the gun I want is called something along the lines of m14, this won't work. I need to call it something else.2. Show my approved license to Canadian authories and make a permanent export. Give money to bureaucrats and UPS.
3. Have the gun examined by Swedish customs. The swedish customs officer has nothing to do with licensing, but he must make sure that the gun that has arrived is the same as the one that I've gotten a license for. This is why it has to say m305 on the gun itself. If it says "m14 deadly assault bank robber machine gun death ray killer baby-eater" nobody cares, because the license is already approved for an m305 rifle. An m305 rifle labeled with whatever is still an m305 rifle.
4. Get gun and shoot lots and lots of paper targets and deer. And wild boar. And moose. And perhaps shorten the barrel.
Every so-called "M-305" that I've ever seen has actually been marked "Norinco M-14S".
I have seen blued no-selector-lug receivers without any stamped markings (and the only markings being hand-engraved numbers on the side of the receiver). Whether they were Chinese or American, I can't say.
I have seen blued no-selector-lug receivers without any stamped markings (and the only markings being hand-engraved numbers on the side of the receiver). Whether they were Chinese or American, I can't say.
The Polytech gun that we just bought says "M305" on the receiver. I think this is the rifle you want to meet your local political requirements. Would have been alot easier if people just read what you asked instead of getting snotty.
This is correct. The 2007 batch say M14S, so this is not what you are looking for. At least some of the ones which came in before 2007 were marked M305. And apparently this newest batch has M305. So you should be able to find what you're looking for.
X2
I just got one, just says M305, no M14 anywhere. Does however have a website address on it, first time I've ever seen that before. I bought mine from Moving Target, they were great.
Paul
What is the website address on your rifle?
When this site is up (seems hit and miss) "w w w.norincoequipment.cn" you will find that the M14S is a full blown M14 clone (i.e. full auto) while the M305 is a M1A clone (i.e. semi auto). Looks to me that the CN built some M305s using M14S parts.
There are options open to you. One option is to buy a purpose built semi-auto BM 59 which takes 5rd and 20rd magazines and has a 16" bbl. You can get a Beretta Garand that takes 5rd and 20rd BM59 magazines. Or you can buy a BM59 16" bbl, op rod and handguard and convert a garand rifle to a carbine, if the short bbl is what you want.
A###el,
all us Canucks can feel your pain at the Govt bureaucracies that you are attempting to do an end around.
Just one orther option you might consider ...
Garand receivers and bolts and other parts are still available VERY cheap here in Canada.
AND,
if you want a project,
there are lots of Chinese M14 barrels available here at reasonable prices.
The barrel thread is the same for the Garand and the M14.
Which means you could easily cobble together a Garand/M14 op rod, use the Garand receiver and bolt and feed mechanism, and screw in the .308/7.62 nato Chinese M14 barrel and gas system.
The resulting "FrankenGarand" would be true to the Bureacrats definitions, and would handle and balance like an M14, and feed like a Garand, FROM 8 RD ENBLOC CLIPS.
Or,
if you don't want a project,
you could advertise in the CGN EE ...
wanted Chinese M305 marked M14 ... ONLY rifles marked M305 will be considered
all us Canucks can feel your pain at the Govt bureaucracies that you are attempting to do an end around.
Just one orther option you might consider ...
Garand receivers and bolts and other parts are still available VERY cheap here in Canada.
AND,
if you want a project,
there are lots of Chinese M14 barrels available here at reasonable prices.
The barrel thread is the same for the Garand and the M14.
Which means you could easily cobble together a Garand/M14 op rod, use the Garand receiver and bolt and feed mechanism, and screw in the .308/7.62 nato Chinese M14 barrel and gas system.
The resulting "FrankenGarand" would be true to the Bureacrats definitions, and would handle and balance like an M14, and feed like a Garand, FROM 8 RD ENBLOC CLIPS.
Or,
if you don't want a project,
you could advertise in the CGN EE ...
wanted Chinese M305 marked M14 ... ONLY rifles marked M305 will be considered
A###el, have you considered calling the rifle an 'M1A' instead of an M-305? I can imagine that explaining how the M1A is a development of the M1 Garand would be much easier to do for your government officials.
No Chinese rifle would ever be marked 'M1A', but you may have better luck with a Springfield...
No Chinese rifle would ever be marked 'M1A', but you may have better luck with a Springfield...
- Location
- Sudbury, On
I was under the impression the chinco used a metric thread, and the M1A uses an imperial thread.
A###el, have you considered an A. R. Sales Mark IV or a Springfield Armory, Inc. M1A from the United States? Here's a photo of the Mark IV:
www.imageseek.com/m1a/gallery/albums/civilian/DCP00802.sized.jpg
The Mark IV rifles are pretty rare. There were only 250 made back in the 1970s. Springfield Armory, Inc. does export M1A rifles to Europe.
2009 imported M305 rifles distributed by Bell Lifestyle Products are marked M305 and not M14. At least some, if not all, of the Lever Service Arms rifles were also marked M305 instead of M14 or M14S. The Lever Service rifles have an "AL" prefix in the serial number.
www.imageseek.com/m1a/gallery/albums/civilian/DCP00802.sized.jpg
The Mark IV rifles are pretty rare. There were only 250 made back in the 1970s. Springfield Armory, Inc. does export M1A rifles to Europe.
2009 imported M305 rifles distributed by Bell Lifestyle Products are marked M305 and not M14. At least some, if not all, of the Lever Service Arms rifles were also marked M305 instead of M14 or M14S. The Lever Service rifles have an "AL" prefix in the serial number.
"... the M14S is a full blown M14 clone (i.e. full auto)..." Nope. Just another name for the M305.
If the rifle you're looking at is a Norinco, it's an M305 or an M14S. Same thing. No more are coming to Canada.
The M14(U.S. military. Some of which were/are MG's.), M1A(expensive civilian sporting rifles) and the Chinese copies are loosely based on the Garand, but are completely differerent rifles. M14/M1A/M305/M14S are a mid 1950's design. Any "firearms expert" would know that. Or should. Sounds like you're out of luck.
If the rifle you're looking at is a Norinco, it's an M305 or an M14S. Same thing. No more are coming to Canada.
The M14(U.S. military. Some of which were/are MG's.), M1A(expensive civilian sporting rifles) and the Chinese copies are loosely based on the Garand, but are completely differerent rifles. M14/M1A/M305/M14S are a mid 1950's design. Any "firearms expert" would know that. Or should. Sounds like you're out of luck.
