Which mosin nagant platform should I use to start a archangel project with?

CoverFire

CoverFire

Regular
Rating - 100%
71   0   0
Location
behind you.......
I've been thinking about a new mosin project and I like the looks of the archangel stock paired with the mosin platform

I'm wondering if anybody here has dealt with this stock before and can give me some insight on there build / experience with the setup

Should I use a m91/30 base or a m44 ? (obviously the 91/30 is longer more practical for a sniper / higher velocity but the polish/ Hungarian m44s seem to have a better overall action/ smoother mechanics you could say) maybe because they were used less. I dont know.

What type of scope setup did you run ?
For hunting any preferred ammo ? (I've only used barnaul soft point 203 grain 7.62x54r )

Thanks for any input, just trying to get some opinions and thoughts on the topic
 
You may feel that it is appropriate... realistically there shall likely be a few folks stopping through to 'Rain on your parade' though.
I'm not quite that militant, but generally this forum is purists. There are folks on here that make a habit of undoing what you are asking help to do.
Red rifles might have been a better spot I'm thinking.
Good luck though
 
OP, your post is going to tread on a few toes here. Simply because some folks believe it to be sacrilege to change any milsurp, no matter how common.

I don't particularly recommend it myself, but each to his/her own tastes.

The M91 and M91/30 and a few later platforms are excellent OLD SCHOOL DEVICES. They WORK first time, every time, even when they haven't been maintained regularly.

I don't own one with an aftermarket stock, simply because they don't appeal to me.

I did put one together for a fellow and took it out for a test run to make sure all was well, before turning it over to him.

First off, I had a heck of a time finding a stock in Canada. By the time I got one here from the US, the cost was close to $600.00 Canadian and a 4 month wait. I won't tell you how it got here.

It's pretty easy to fit to the 91/30 and the trigger channel is cut out for an aftermarket trigger. The rifle that went into it was fitted with an SKB instamount, I had on hand for a few years and set up with a Leupold 2.5X long eye relief scope. YES, it did take a bit of fiddling to get it bedded nice and snug.

I have two vintage M91/30 sniper rifles. One has a PU scope and definitely looks like it's been there and done that, still, it will shoot the hand load it likes into just under 2 inches at 100 yds and factory surplus, just under 4 inches. The second rifle is an FTR 91/30 with a PE scope, attached directly to the top of the receiver and IMHO is much more solid and precise than the PU side mount. Both rifles have excellent bores and their barrels carry a serial number matching the scope bases. The PE scoped rifle will shoot its preferred hand load into 1 1/4 moa and less, as long as I do my part.

The rifle that went into the Archangel stock was a 1938 dated Tula. It was still in the grease when it was given to me by its owner for the build.

That adjustable stock was very ergonomically stable and correct for me, once it was adjusted to my taste. The fellow that owned it, is of similar build and hasn't adjusted it since he got it. Yes, he shoots and hunts with it. He's a Russian immigrant and loves anything Mosin Nagant.

I took all three rifles to the range, mostly for fun, but also to see if the new stock would make much difference.

I really liked the handiness of the detachable magazine. However I had a bit of difficulty getting it to feed cartridges properly. They didn't want to tip up enough and jammed. This was fixed before going to the range.

I used a common batch of ammunition, that had proven accurate in both of my snipers and a couple of field grade shooters. 2 inch average groups, off the bench were consistent in all of them.

The Archangel stocked rifle shot it exactly the same. appx 2 inches at 100yds.

The felt recoil was less because of the recoil pad and fit of the stock.

I shot it out to 400 yards and the groups with the surplus Hungarian ammo stayed the same, 2 MOA.

The fellow I sold it to, only uses factory Norma ammunition and he says he's getting the same results with it. He loves the look of it and that's 90% of the appeal for some.

If you like the look and are handy, the stock, if you can find one, isn't a bad choice at all IMHO.
 
tokguy said:
You may feel that it is appropriate... realistically there shall likely be a few folks stopping through to 'Rain on your parade' though.
I'm not quite that militant, but generally this forum is purists. There are folks on here that make a habit of undoing what you are asking help to do.
Red rifles might have been a better spot I'm thinking.
Good luck though
Click to expand...

I wasn't suggesting that the OP was appropriate in posting this in the milsurp section. What I was suggesting is that a bit of Ivan Chesnokov (Rifle is fine!) <-Humour, was an appropriate response to a post asking how to best bubba a milsurp in the milsurp section.

You are correct that Red Rifles is the correct spot for this.

I really like bearhunter's response. Useful pragmatic information that speaks from the heart. I am inspired to offer what similar information that I can to the OP:


I once modified a Russian milsurp myself and it was this experience that led me to appreciate the history of these objects as well as our place as custodians of them. Ironically it was a tokarev tt-33 (tokguy :)) that I had worked on extensively to get it to shoot properly. The tolerances of some of the Russian wartime manufactured arms were pretty sloppy due to the conditions they were produced in. Much work was required to make mine a shooter. I learned a great deal from the experience. In the end the finish on the pistol was pretty messed up due to all my work so I (shudder) blocked it and polished it. I still own it. It shoots beautifully and looks amazing and I won't make that mistake again. (sand down the finish on a milsurp)

My advice to Coverfire is that if you are going to/have to mod a Mosin, I would start with one that shoots well but has as many mismatched serial number parts as possible. Something that you won't look back on and regret modifying in the future. Further to that, I would note that some mods can be undone easier than others. A stock mod is pretty straight forward and if you keep all the original bits you can return the rifle to its original factory configuration. In fitting an action to the new stock try to not modify the action but instead modify the new stock to fit it.
 
Last edited:
All I wanted was an opinion of those who have done the transition im not stepping on toes, nor trying to stir the pot. I own a 1942 91/30 with all mismatching parts I got for 100 bucks 6 years ago that has a split wood stock and is just sitting in a closet in pieces collecting dust, it's just another beat up m91/30 so it's not a "tragedy" if i use it for this stock swap. If nobody has done the swap that's ok and if some folks dont like the idea that's ok too there entitled to there opinion.
Considering I'm rather new to this forum I'll remember in the future to watch where I post " my modification" questions thanks for the heads up.
 
bearhunter said:
OP, your post is going to tread on a few toes here. Simply because some folks believe it to be sacrilege to change any milsurp, no matter how common.

I don't particularly recommend it myself, but each to his/her own tastes.

The M91 and M91/30 and a few later platforms are excellent OLD SCHOOL DEVICES. They WORK first time, every time, even when they haven't been maintained regularly.

I don't own one with an aftermarket stock, simply because they don't appeal to me.

I did put one together for a fellow and took it out for a test run to make sure all was well, before turning it over to him.

First off, I had a heck of a time finding a stock in Canada. By the time I got one here from the US, the cost was close to $600.00 Canadian and a 4 month wait. I won't tell you how it got here.

It's pretty easy to fit to the 91/30 and the trigger channel is cut out for an aftermarket trigger. The rifle that went into it was fitted with an SKB instamount, I had on hand for a few years and set up with a Leupold 2.5X long eye relief scope. YES, it did take a bit of fiddling to get it bedded nice and snug.

I have two vintage M91/30 sniper rifles. One has a PU scope and definitely looks like it's been there and done that, still, it will shoot the hand load it likes into just under 2 inches at 100 yds and factory surplus, just under 4 inches. The second rifle is an FTR 91/30 with a PE scope, attached directly to the top of the receiver and IMHO is much more solid and precise than the PU side mount. Both rifles have excellent bores and their barrels carry a serial number matching the scope bases. The PE scoped rifle will shoot its preferred hand load into 1 1/4 moa and less, as long as I do my part.

The rifle that went into the Archangel stock was a 1938 dated Tula. It was still in the grease when it was given to me by its owner for the build.

That adjustable stock was very ergonomically stable and correct for me, once it was adjusted to my taste. The fellow that owned it, is of similar build and hasn't adjusted it since he got it. Yes, he shoots and hunts with it. He's a Russian immigrant and loves anything Mosin Nagant.

I took all three rifles to the range, mostly for fun, but also to see if the new stock would make much difference.

I really liked the handiness of the detachable magazine. However I had a bit of difficulty getting it to feed cartridges properly. They didn't want to tip up enough and jammed. This was fixed before going to the range.

I used a common batch of ammunition, that had proven accurate in both of my snipers and a couple of field grade shooters. 2 inch average groups, off the bench were consistent in all of them.

The Archangel stocked rifle shot it exactly the same. appx 2 inches at 100yds.

The felt recoil was less because of the recoil pad and fit of the stock.

I shot it out to 400 yards and the groups with the surplus Hungarian ammo stayed the same, 2 MOA.

The fellow I sold it to, only uses factory Norma ammunition and he says he's getting the same results with it. He loves the look of it and that's 90% of the appeal for some.

If you like the look and are handy, the stock, if you can find one, isn't a bad choice at all IMHO.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this feedback it is very helpful and informative! I appreciate the time you took to type it
 
Clotho said:
I wasn't suggesting that the OP was appropriate in posting this in the milsurp section. What I was suggesting is that a bit of Ivan Chesnokov (Rifle is fine!) <-Humour, was an appropriate response to a post asking how to best bubba a milsurp in the milsurp section.

You are correct that Red Rifles is the correct spot for this.

I really like bearhunter's response. Useful pragmatic information that speaks from the heart. I am inspired to offer what similar information that I can to the OP:


I once modified a Russian milsurp myself and it was this experience that led me to appreciate the history of these objects as well as our place as custodians of them. Ironically it was a tokarev tt-33 (tokguy :)) that I had worked on extensively to get it to shoot properly. The tolerances of some of the Russian wartime manufactured arms were pretty sloppy due to the conditions they were produced in. Much work was required to make mine a shooter. I learned a great deal from the experience. In the end the finish on the pistol was pretty messed up due to all my work so I (shudder) blocked it and polished it. I still own it. It shoots beautifully and looks amazing and I won't make that mistake again. (sand down the finish on a milsurp)

My advice to Coverfire is that if you are going to/have to mod a Mosin, I would start with one that shoots well but has as many mismatched serial number parts as possible. Something that you won't look back on and regret modifying in the future. Further to that, I would note that some mods can be undone easier than others. A stock mod is pretty straight forward and if you keep all the original bits you can return the rifle to its original factory configuration. In fitting an action to the new stock try to not modify the action but instead modify the new stock to fit it.
Click to expand...


Same too you- thanks for the input and your opinion/ time you took to write it . Next time I'll post to "red rifles" or a general forum question. Thanks guys
 
CoverFire said:
All I wanted was an opinion of those who have done the transition im not stepping on toes, nor trying to stir the pot. I own a 1942 91/30 with all mismatching parts I got for 100 bucks 6 years ago that has a split wood stock and is just sitting in a closet in pieces collecting dust, it's just another beat up m91/30 so it's not a "tragedy" if i use it for this stock swap. If nobody has done the swap that's ok and if some folks dont like the idea that's ok too there entitled to there opinion.
Considering I'm rather new to this forum I'll remember in the future to watch where I post " my modification" questions thanks for the heads up.
Click to expand...

If you already have a junker, what other feedback are you looking for? Use the junker. The best shooting milsurp mosin on the world is going to shoot differently and likely worse in a promag zytel abomination stock that looks cool but is less rigid than regular birch wood.

If you want it to shoot laser beam groups, get ready to spend a lot more money than the cost of your aftermarket stock.

If you want a match grade mosin, return your plastic stock. Buy something made of oversized birch or fiberglass or laminate and spend the money on a better barrel and bedding compound.

Then there's the problem if optics on a mosin. It is not a good action choice for optics.

To be frank if you must go milsurp and "sniper stock", start with a mauser 98, Springfield O3 or similar action with an integral bolt head and front & rear action bridges.
 
To the OP....I have done this exact setup with a 91\30 and its a fun albeit large rifle once assembled. The archangel stock comes pre-inletted for a timney trigger also and that is the one thing i have yet to install. The original trigger is not what i would call state of the art. I have also mounted a scope but not yet tested it. If you remove the rear sight and the sight base ( get a good hammer and drift ) you will find a dovetailed rail on the barrel. You will also need to alter the bolt handle depending on the scope you use.

It is a fun ongoing project that i put time and money into when i can afford to.
 
OP, there is an article in a 2015 issue of Inside Military Surplus by a man named Abe Elias.

He uses a 91/30 to do exactly what you want to do - with the addition of a Timney trigger and a cut-down barrel (cut to 22"). You may be able to find the article online.

In the article, Elias shows 100 yd targets that highlight the improvement that can be achieved, and it is impressive.
 
I did a sporter Mosin project and it was a very rewarding experience! In the end it shoots 2" with milsurp and almost 1/2 MOA with handloads!

View attachment 359024

View attachment 359025

This is the thread on my experience with it:
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...ists-need-not-open-this-thread!!!-(pic-heavy)

You already have a junker so I'd say your set but before putting the time and energy into it I'd say to check your barrel out to make sure its worth it.

Put a round into the muzzle and note how far down it falls. If it's almost down to the brass I'd say it's not worth the effort unless you're a bullet caster and can make larger bullets. If the bore is tight and much of the bullet is still exposed and the rifling looks decent, you're probably good to give it a shot. It's a lot of work getting a scope mounted and modifying the bolt. I have an extra Mosin bent bolt handle I'll likely never use so let me know if you do proceed. The quick and easy way to go the Scout style scope route which I've had success with as well. The good part about that is it's reversible.

View attachment 359027

View attachment 359028

Don't let the purists get you down. I don't think there are any rifles that have outnumbered the Mosins in our world today. I wouldn't recommend cutting up a nice one but if it's a missmatched refub with a less than stellar stock, one less won't hurt the world and if it gets used much more as a shooter because of the sportization I say why not!?!?!! It's doing more for the value of Mosins being at the range shooting groups or even steels than in someones safe. The more people that get to see them being used and having fun with cheap 30 cal ammo the better in my opinion.
 
My advice is if you are going to drop $300 for a donor mosin, and another $300 for an archangel stock, you might as well save up another $500 and try to find a legit mosin nagant sniper.

The one I had was crazy accurate and was a hoot to shoot. It's the only rifle that I've owned that I miss having.

I did a bunch of work to an old mosin I had. I originally bought it for $109.00. I put it in an ATI stock, drilled and tapped the receiver for a Rock Solid scope mount, tracked down a bent bolt handle, and took it out shooting. It was fun doing the work on the rifle, but at the end of the day my mosin sniper shot the lights out of the modern mosin sniper I built.
 
Last edited:
OP, here's where the crux of the matter is.

Do you like to tinker?? Are you a competent tinkerer??

Do you finish what you start??

Are you willing to invest time/money to do the due diligence on what will make your rifle shoot well??

Some say special care was taken to select Mosins for accuracy before they were turned into sniper rifles. I read an article by one of the people, who's job it was to transform the rifles into sniper variants.

He laughed at the interviewer when he suggested the rifles were specially selected.

The Soviets fielded more snipers and sniper rifles during WWII than any other nation and maybe even more than all of the other combatant nations, on both sides, combined.

Like the fellow said, "there wasn't time for such niceties. Later all of that changed, like everything else. It may be one of the reasons so many "ex sniper" variants, with welded over holes, were mixed into the batches of Field Grade rifles that are found randomly in the surplus rifles we see today.

The "ex sniper" variant I have doesn't shoot much better than most of my shooter grade Mosins. It could just be the lovely RED TONE laminated stock has something to do with it??? I believe those lovely laminated stocks are post war??? I haven't bothered to research their time of first issue.

Like all surplus rifles, some will shoot the ammo they like better than others.

Don't expect miracles from your rifle, it was never intended to perform in miraculous ways. If it does, Bonus.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom