Which NR black rifle?

[lone-wolf]

This isn't one of their ripoff ARs originally made for third world countries who the Americans wouldn't sell to, the T-97 is a variant of their own service rifle. The fit and finish on mine is flawless. It has a rugged AK/VZ hybrid action. It strips easily without tools into large, simple parts. The trigger is light and smooth. It is perfectly balanced at the pistol grip. I've found it to be a solidly built, accurate and reliable rifle.

The problem with the T97 is the lack of features. Bad (but not unworkable) magazine release, absolutely horrid safety position. No external controls for the bolt catch. No changing the muzzle device without taking it to a gunsmith. Want an optic? Hope you like chinwelds or taking a hacksaw to your iron sights. But then you're spending significant money on what's supposed to be a budget option.

This post is funny. It's not a variant of a US service rifle made for export! It's a variant of their own service rifle made for export!
And then you go on to list all the good features of it, that the ar15 variant also has, and then list all the bad design features it has that the ar15 doesn't.

A well made poorly designed rifle from the sounds of it.
Their sks rifles, not a variant of their military rifle but the ones the military actually used, are well made too.

 

[Jarvy]

This post is funny. It's not a variant of a US service rifle made for export! It's a variant of their own service rifle made for export!

The user was griping about the usual fit and finish problems of Norincos. My Norinco AR upper shoots great, but I won't deny that there are tool marks everywhere, the anodizing is shoddy done at best, and the blemishes were gone over in paint.

I was merely pointing out that the T97 is finished and assembled very well.

And then you go on to list all the good features of it, that the ar15 variant also has,

Except for that non-restricted classification, refer to thread title!

A well made poorly designed rifle from the sounds of it.

Yes and no. There are a lot of very good design points, and almost as many shortcomings. The shortcomings may or may not be an issue depending on what you're after.

There's not much in the way of options for those non-restricteds! The XCR and Tavor have all the ergos you could want, but have similar or worse accuracy for 3x the price, and the XCR seems to be plagued with as many QC issues as any Norinco. The Tavor has the worst trigger since the VP70 (unless you're willing to shell out a few hundred more dollars) and using the wrong magazines can damage the rifle.

You can get an SL8 or a modified ACR, F2000, but now you're looking at the 4x or more price range...

...So yeah, I would say the T97 is good value for the money.

 

[rommelrommel]

I have a Tavor, next black rifle would be an ACR in a heavier caliber. XCR accuracy seems like a crapshoot. ACR with a match barrel tho... Looks pretty promising.

 

[thegrandpoohbah]

h ttp://www.t97.ca/

I could almost get behind this. Just not sure how comfortable I would be cutting a brand new rifle. A gunsmith I am most assuredly not.

 

[Jarvy]

h ttp://www.t97.ca/

I could almost get behind this. Just not sure how comfortable I would be cutting a brand new rifle. A gunsmith I am most assuredly not.

My concern as well. What I AM looking forward to is their paddle mag release conversion!

 

[Lobster_pot]

h ttp://www.t97.ca/

I could almost get behind this. Just not sure how comfortable I would be cutting a brand new rifle. A gunsmith I am most assuredly not.

Installing the FTU on a T97 is VERY simple if you have a basic dremel tool kit. It definetly does not require a gunsmith. If you have a dremel and can watch/follow video instructions you can do it.
As far as the people saying "I hate to cut a brand new rifle" I felt the same way. At first I hated the carry handle. Then I grew to like the carry handle sights. Wasn't really sure I wanted to install the FTU when it came. But I did anyway. Glad I did!!! I'm very happy with my T97. If you've handled the Norc pistols and think that's what you're getting its not!! The fit and finish is nothing like a norc. It's very good for a non $2500+ rifle and way better than the su-16 I had.
If you really want a bullpup and can swing the price of a tavor go for it. Awesome rifle. But I keep looking at the tan Tavor at my local gunshop and I can see black swirls in the plastic at different spots. It looks like dirt on it until you get close then you realize it's in the plastic. It looks like they're made out of recycled plastic????

My top choice is the VZ58! For nonrestricted black/red rifle

I wish 100 times a day my Daniel Defense AR was nonrestricted so I could take it out hunting in the woods. If that was possible these threads would disappear or be very short. It sucks that we Canadians are deprived of hunting with the best sporting rifle ever!

 

[J Whisky]

The more I research, the harder I find it to reconcile the price for a NR. I'm going to have to reconsider a restricted AR-15. Seems to be a better bet. Thanks.

I just bought a restricted AR myself for the same reason. I won't take it to the bush, obviously, but there are much more affordable options for that purpose anyway. A long term ATT ain't so bad, especially considering the 30% premium on a NR.

 

[geologist]

Thanks for the input. The more I look at it, the harder it is to swallow the price for a decent looking NR black rifle. Even the Mini 14 is now approaching the $1000 range.

MR1, T97, FS2000 - not a big fan
AR-180B and M96 - both look interesting but I don't believe either can be purchased new in Canada at least not from the quick search I did
ACR - ouch, that price tag...
HK SL8 - is it me or is that really heavy?

I may just have to suck it up and go restricted. I was eyeing up a DDM4 MK18 on Wolverines website. Or even one of those cheap DA556 end of the world combos from Canada Ammo.

If I moved back to the north I would go with a non restricted FOR SURE. And a truck window mount rifle rack.

 

[Dano99]

Get yourself an SKS with either and ATI or Tapco stock. convert it to use tapco mags and don't bother with a scope for up to 300m. For $400 you now have a black non restricted rifle that is cheap to shoot. Granted, it is heavier and your drills we be different then modern stuff but you can't get a more reliable rifle. Whatever you choose, have fun.

 

[C18cz858]

Thanks for the input. The more I look at it, the harder it is to swallow the price for a decent looking NR black rifle. Even the Mini 14 is now approaching the $1000 range.

MR1, T97, FS2000 - not a big fan
AR-180B and M96 - both look interesting but I don't believe either can be purchased new in Canada at least not from the quick search I did
ACR - ouch, that price tag...
HK SL8 - is it me or is that really heavy?

I may just have to suck it up and go restricted. I was eyeing up a DDM4 MK18 on Wolverines website. Or even one of those cheap DA556 end of the world combos from Canada Ammo.

Csa vz. 58, famae 552. whata wrong with xcr? Dont go restricted have some fun in the bush

 

[C18cz858]

Built this for over 1600, very accurate to 300 yards, havent shot passed that, nice and quiet gun
Not like the xcr or anything with a built in brake, I recommend the vz. 58 and you can get it chambered in 223

 

[C18cz858]

HK SL8

or hang on for the HK243

Were getting the 243?

 

[onetwentyish]

Built this for over 1600, very accurate to 300 yards, havent shot passed that, nice and quiet gun
Not like the xcr or anything with a built in brake, I recommend the vz. 58 and you can get it chambered in 223

Lol. I think your mistaken on the "brake" the XCR comes with. Its a flash hider and should not cause any increase in sound. Aside from it flash suppression abilities, a muzzle device also protects the crown of your barrel as well.

 

[C18cz858]

Lol. I think your mistaken on the "brake" the XCR comes with. Its a flash hider and should not cause any increase in sound. Aside from it flash suppression abilities, a muzzle device also protects the crown of your barrel

Sorry, "flash hider". I completly disagree with you based on experience, anything thats going to expell gas anywhere
But straight forward is going to increase sound unless its a suppressor absorbing it. Lots of people say it shouldnt, but try it out
We had removed it from the xcr and you sure could tell the differance. Obviously not the case for every gun or the environment your shooting in
But at least with the xcr it helped. A barrell cap also protects the crown. I know the mr1 is super loud as well.
Not really a great arguement I presented as most guns are loud and you should
Wear hearing protection.

 

[CoonT]

858 gets overlooked because of the 5-rd mag limitations. But you're right, that's pretty sweet right there.

 

[C18cz858]

Yeah I wish it had a pistol mag, this is my main rifle. And I recommend
It to the op. Just as good as the xcr or tavor in my opinion. Super simple piston system
Huge bolt carrier. Easy maintance and battle proven, maybe not the csa but based on the same design
As the original vz. 58 only problem I had is the big gas port problem
But they fixed that.

Im shoot just as far and accurate as any of my buddies
With mr1's or xcr's and im running 7.62x39

 

[mikethebike]

Lol. I think your mistaken on the "brake" the XCR comes with. Its a flash hider and should not cause any increase in sound. Aside from it flash suppression abilities, a muzzle device also protects the crown of your barrel

Sorry, "flash hider". I completly disagree with you based on experience, anything thats going to expell gas anywhere
But straight forward is going to increase sound unless its a suppressor absorbing it. Lots of people say it shouldnt, but try it out
We had removed it from the xcr and you sure could tell the differance. Obviously not the case for every gun or the environment your shooting in
But at least with the xcr it helped. A barrell cap also protects the crown. I know the mr1 is super loud as well.
Not really a great arguement I presented as most guns are loud and you should
Wear hearing protection.

No no no no no no no NO, a flash hider does not increase sound that you can detect while wearing hearing protection with your own ears.

Shoot it with a real compensator and youll see.

 

[Dexter Morgan]

On that CSA rifle;

Is the scope mounted beside the gun receiver, instead of above it?

 

[C18cz858]

No no no no no no no NO, a flash hider does not increase sound that you can detect while wearing hearing protection with your own ears.

Shoot it with a real compensator and youll see.

If I was wearing ear protection I wouldnt care, I dont shoot with hearing protection
All my guns are quiet, all im saying is soon as I take it off its noticeablely quieter
Atleast on the xcr

 

[C18cz858]

On that CSA rifle;

Is the scope mounted beside the gun receiver, instead of above it?

The rail is screwed right on the receiver and the scope slides right on and
Latches down. I can still use my iron sights if I wanted