Which one? First time buyer.

Palamedes

Palamedes

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First time buyer here. I'm in the market for a sort of "all purpose" rifle and thought I would illicit the expertise of CGN'ers. Please excuse my ignorance as I am very new to this hobby.

I am looking for a non-restricted semi-auto that doesn't break the bank (so is everyone, right? max $3k without optic). I'm not too close to a range (1 hour drive minimum), but do like to get out to the bush during the summer (ruling out the restricted AR's). I have narrowed it down to a T97 FTU (mainly for the price), the RBF (.308 for hunting) or the Tavor (reliability). As you can see, the bullpup has my attention.

So for a first time buyer, my question is this: should I get my beak wet with a T97 at the lower cost, or spend the money on the reliability that the Tavor has to offer? The KelTec is my "in-between" choice, but loses its appeal with the lack of the 10 round bliss an LAR mag would provide the others (but of course packs that punch a hunting rifle needs).

Just to throw something else into the mix, I have noticed that KelTec and IWI have some interesting products on the go, mainly the RDB and the X95. These guns are much more appealing to me than my current choices, but from what I have read, I shouldn't hold my breath for that non-res FRT to come through. My only concern is that if a new Tavor (or RDB for that matter) does come, I will be holding the bag with the old model that will most certainly depreciate in value, right?

So what are your thoughts? I know this will boil down to personal opinion, but given your experiences with your first gun purchases, what would you do in my shoes?

Thanks in advance.

C
 
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If you've got the cash and like bull pups, what's not to love about the Tavor? It's good looking, current, and well made.

Comparing the T97 is a bit unfair. It's like comparing a Porsche and a Beetle because they both have engines in the back.
 
I may be wrong but won't the X95 be restricted due to barrel length?
Anyways, like everyone has said. If you have the $3k funds and want a bullpup, don't even consider the T97. The ergos alone will drive you batty. Handle both at the same time and you'll know.
I've handled the RDB in .223. It's a cool gun, balances well and already used by the KelTec shooting team. My issue is the mag release. Similar position to the Tavor one except it's a bar and all metal. If you do the Tavor back of hand bump to release the mag, you will end up with a bruised or bleeding hand in no time. The KelTec team lines theirs with felt so it doesn't hurt as much!
The RDB will probably cost around $2500 if and when it actually gets here.
I would source a used Tavor on the EE for around $2200-$2400 and accessorize from there!
 
The Tavor is definitely the best choice. Kel-tec is known for having occasional hiccups since all of their guns are made in one factory, so it'd probably be a better idea to get the Tavor if it's your first gun - very little chance you'll have any problems.
Also stay away from the T97, it'll leave a very bad taste in your mouth. I'd advise avoiding norincos altogether for any first time buyer.
 
Bull pups only? Or open to traditional config?

How "all purpose" do you need? What are all the purposes you must achieve?
---- If hunting, deer a must? Coyote a must?
---- The distance/range you expect to be accurate and/or effective out to?
---- The style of shooting? CQB, DMR, 3-gun?

Do you prefer to leave it in factory config? Or are you a mod junky?
Do you expect it must be reliable out of the box? Or are you a tinkerer?
How much money do you want left after the gun for optics?
How much money do you want left for ammo? High round count kinda guy?

Might be a boring way to go about it, but the answers to questions like that will help narrow down the choices.
 
Pardon my ignorance on Canadian gun laws, I do not fully understand what constitutes a "Restricted Firearm" up north. So I am also ignorant if my following suggestion, which is legal here in the USA, would be legal in Canada.

I would suggest you look into the AR-15 platform besides there being a wide selection of makers, here in the US anyway, there are a plethora of after market accessories available as well. Now another nice thing about the AR platform is that here in the USA, this is where I do not know if this applies to Canadian gun laws, it is the lower receiver that I serial numbered and therefore is the "firearm". So once you get the AR in 5.56/223Remington you could then go out, at least here in the USA, and get extra upper receivers in other calibers such as 300 Blackout, 6.8mm SPC, and several others as well.
 
The T97 is a fine option if you understand just what it is you're getting - The most bare-bones piece of machinery that still qualifies as a semiauto rifle that you can get. It was designed to quickly and cheaply outfit 2 million half-trained conscripts, and everything in the design reflects that. That said, it's light, slim, super easy to clean and has the recoil of a nerf gun. It's simple, durable and reliable. Think of it as an AK- It's not fancy in the slightest but you can make it work.

But if you have the cash for a Tavor, I wouldn't even think twice. It's the most comfortable rifle to shoot that there is. Like the rest of the rifle, the controls are extremely well thought out and can be manipulated lightning-fast, rivaling even the AR15 with practice. I'm absolutely in love with mine. You can probably pick up a very lightly used one here on the EE for significantly cheaper than new.
 
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GLS_1956 said:
Pardon my ignorance on Canadian gun laws, I do not fully understand what constitutes a "Restricted Firearm" up north. So I am also ignorant if my following suggestion, which is legal here in the USA, would be legal in Canada.

I would suggest you look into the AR-15 platform...
Click to expand...

Restricted firearms in Canada must be registered, and may only be transported to and from approved ranges. They cannot be taken out hunting, for example. Restricted firearms include All handguns, any rifle with a barrel length shorter than 18.5", and very specifically: ALL AR-15s.

This is what makes 5.56/.223s semi-automatics that are not ARs so popular in Canada.
 
Not sure how comfortable it would be to hunt with any of those honestly. If you want to hunt and have a black rifle the FAMAS in .308 would be a good choice. The VZ58/CZ858 would be good to. With quality ammo you should do fine and it have lots of knock down power.

I think my T97 is ok for now, Shoot around 1.5-2 moa at 100 yards with irons. I think people that say its crap never even used one, or refused to use metal mags that It prefers. IMO the use of bullpups is pretty limited. Their fun, but I wouldn't take mine into the bush to hunt ( even tho I have brought it).

I still don't know If I love or hate bullpups, So getting a cheap t97 was the way to go for such a limited platform. Once you strip it down you will notice the quality is good unlike what people say, no difference to a VZ58 imo.

Edit : you can always get them all :D
 
Thanks for the input all.

I figured most would side with the Tavor as it has a proven track record. I think I might just have to pick one up on the EE to try it out.. Worst case I can sell it for a small loss. I wouldn't trick it out too much, but I like the look of the midwest handrail and think a small light would be practical. I have heard some talk regarding the trigger, which is a bit of a concern considering a new one is $500.00 +.

I am open to other rifles, but for an "all purpose" (upto 500 yards, bush shooting, hunting, zombie apocalypse/cqb etc) I felt that these bullpups would do the trick. If the modern hunter or the varmint hunter wasn't so expensive, i'd consider it. The m305 seems too heavy and rather bulky, and the 542 seems way too expensive for what it is, especially with the controversy tied around it.

I'd much rather wait for the RDB, DMR or X95 (they gotta come out with a NR variant given the success of the TAR-21, right?) but I feel like i'd be waiting way too long for that to happen (as mentioned earlier).

Again, really appreciate the input.
 
Palamedes said:
I have heard some talk regarding the trigger, which is a bit of a concern considering a new one is $500.00 +.
Click to expand...

Try the stock trigger first. Part of my motivation to buy used was to have enough to buy a replacement trigger. Much to my surprise, I thought the stock trigger was just fine.
 
The geissele trigger bow is more of an improvement than the actual trigger pack IMO, although I do have both.

Gear head works makes the best tavor accessories overall, I have pretty much everything they make along with the manticore butt pad.

If you are concerned about the tavor trigger I think you'd find the t97 to be atrocious.
 
Maybe consider the new apc wolverine is bringing in. From that list I'd go with the tavor. I'd stay away from the modern series of guns for a first gun they can be finicky with mags and ammo which might frustrate you.

An xcr is another good choice. Easy calibre changes, reliable, can pick one up cheap on the ee.
 
You can buy my unfired Tavor :D


Or look at the new APC wolverine is bringing in, or the limited CZ 858 that are also being brought in by wolverine supplies.
 
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