Maybe if we get together and buy like 10000 rounds or so as a group? Just wondering, I would be happy to enquire with them once my licence comes.
But then I guess if all of you experienced gentlemen reload, you don't need to buy much anyway?
Which revolver for a newbie?
- Thread starter amolkapoor
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Maybe if we get together and buy like 10000 rounds or so as a group? Just wondering, I would be happy to enquire with them once my licence comes.
But then I guess if all of you experienced gentlemen reload, you don't need to buy much anyway?
Hello JohnTO,
Thank you for your comments, could you please tell me how lead bullets differ from jacketed ones in terms of revolver shooting? My understanding so far was that jacketed bullets make the barrel less dirty than exposed lead ones. Just wondering, is it a matter of accuracy?
Thanks,
Amol
I load and shoot a lot of both from my revolvers. I shoot in cowboy action where they require cast lead only. But I also shoot my revolvers in IDPA events. And currently buying cast costs about $10/1000 more than buying Berry's plated bullets.
I've had guns that shot cast more accurately than jacketed. I've never done the same test for plated. I suppose I should. Mostly it'll be a gun by gun situation with some being slightly better with cast and others likely not showing any difference.
Shooting cast seems to have some interesting misconceptions. There's a little more trouble to go through to ensure the lead is the right alloy for the gun and that it is not being shot too fast by higher pressures. But for lighter power calibers such as .38Spl the proper cast bullets leave nothing in the bore that you won't see with jacketed or plated bullets. I've let to see any lead caked up in my cast bullet guns. And the others I shoot with find the same thing.
What you will see with shooting cast is that the gun generally gets dirty from fouling faster. I suspect it has to do with the bullet lube as much as anything. And there IS a very slight amount of lead that comes away at the cylinder gap as the bullet enters the forcing cone. This all means that the guns will become "sooty" on the outside faster than with jacketed or plated. So it's nicer for your health and those around you to use jacketed or plated at indoor ranges. But outside? If you can get cast cheaply and it turns out to shoot better then by all means shoot cast and don't worry about it. If the bullet alloy is wrong it won't take long to find out. You'll know it within 50 rounds if there's a buildup. Accuracy will go to pot. And when you open the cylinder and look down the bore you'll see an odd looking line along the rifling that isn't the same as the fouling. And then at home when you run a bronze bore brush down the bore small flakes of lead will come out. And THAT should simply not happen. A proper combination of cast bullet and gun will not leave lead in the bore.
Then simply avoid that brand of bullet from then on since they obviously didn't take the care to use the right products.
I've had guns that shot cast more accurately than jacketed. I've never done the same test for plated. I suppose I should. Mostly it'll be a gun by gun situation with some being slightly better with cast and others likely not showing any difference.
Shooting cast seems to have some interesting misconceptions. There's a little more trouble to go through to ensure the lead is the right alloy for the gun and that it is not being shot too fast by higher pressures. But for lighter power calibers such as .38Spl the proper cast bullets leave nothing in the bore that you won't see with jacketed or plated bullets. I've let to see any lead caked up in my cast bullet guns. And the others I shoot with find the same thing.
What you will see with shooting cast is that the gun generally gets dirty from fouling faster. I suspect it has to do with the bullet lube as much as anything. And there IS a very slight amount of lead that comes away at the cylinder gap as the bullet enters the forcing cone. This all means that the guns will become "sooty" on the outside faster than with jacketed or plated. So it's nicer for your health and those around you to use jacketed or plated at indoor ranges. But outside? If you can get cast cheaply and it turns out to shoot better then by all means shoot cast and don't worry about it. If the bullet alloy is wrong it won't take long to find out. You'll know it within 50 rounds if there's a buildup. Accuracy will go to pot. And when you open the cylinder and look down the bore you'll see an odd looking line along the rifling that isn't the same as the fouling. And then at home when you run a bronze bore brush down the bore small flakes of lead will come out. And THAT should simply not happen. A proper combination of cast bullet and gun will not leave lead in the bore.
Then simply avoid that brand of bullet from then on since they obviously didn't take the care to use the right products.
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All pistol ammunition leaves powder fouling behind, although some powders foul worse than others. I like Unique for mid power loads, but man, its dirty and tends to leave the gun felling gummy. H-110, by comparison, burns cleanly.
When it comes to bullet fouling, both lead and copper fouls, the amount is determined by a number of factors, which I'll get to. Copper is actually more difficult to get rid of, in that it requires harsh chemicals like ammonia to dissolve the copper, whereas lead fouling most often can be addressed with nothing more than a good quality, tight fitting bore brush and a bit of elbow grease. If lead fouling is ignored, and allowed to build up, it can seriously degrade accuracy, and a tool like a Lewis Lead Remover then might be called on. But another cool thing about lead fouling is that it can be removed from the bore by firing a few rounds of jacketed ammo, the fouling from which can be addressed chemically.
There are several elements that effect the degree of fouling from lead bullets, and gives you a bit more to think about than simply choosing between a box of jacketed .357/170 gr silhouette bullets or a box of .357/110 gr hollow points. Probably the most important of these elements is the cast bullet diameter, relative to the chamber throat - not the bore diameter, the quality of the bullet lube, the bullet hardness relative to velocity, and the condition of the bore. In the end the degree of fouling comes down to friction between the bullet and the bore, so if your bullet lube breaks down, no matter how good the other elements of your load are, the bullet will foul, and accuracy will suffer. Bullet fit in the chamber throat, revolver, pistol, or rifle, is critical to align the bullet with the center of the bore, and to create a tight gas seal. The bullet lube minimizes friction, and the better the grade of lube, the higher the velocity it will tolerate.
Its important that a bullet can upset and make a tight gas seal in the bore, but, all else being equal, a very soft alloy that works fine for .38 wadcutters at 700 fps, will foul badly at 1400 fps when fired at full .357 magnum pressures. A gas check strengthens the base area of the bullet, and prevents gas cutting of the base, and is beneficial for high velocity handgun and rifle cast bullets, even when the alloy is hard. An alloy which is suitable for 1400 fps from a handgun, might not handle being fired at 2300 fps in a rifle, 2300 is about the upper velocity limit for cast bullets, although 3000 fps is claimed possible with LBT Blue Lube in calibers larger than .270.
The flip side is that when a hard cast bullet is fired at low pressure and low velocity, it fails to obturate, resulting in gas cutting, resulting in increased fouling, and the chance that the bullet will strip through the lands, tearing away lead and filling the grooves under high pressure, causing accuracy to be worse than dismal. A jacketed bullet by comparison is slightly over-sized so makes a good seal with the bore, regardless of either pressure or velocity. The jacket material is strong enough that it won't strip through the lands, unless the bore is in extremely poor condition. But despite the wonderful array of jacketed bullets, you won't find jacketed wadcutters, or jacketed semi-wadcutters (okay, Speer makes a half jacket pistol bullet that looks like a SWC) and you won't find a jacketed wide flat nose (WFN) bullets, in fact the potential shape of cast bullets is nearly infinite, not so with jacketed bullets.
The simpler, if more expensive route, is to choose jacketed bullets that are closely suited to your needs, but shooting cast bullets can be infinitely more interesting, even if you choose to purchase them rather than cast them yourself. A great leap in the learning curve can be made with the purchase of the book, "Jacketed Performance with Cast Bullets" by Veral Smith. You should be able to find a copy on line, or by contacting Lead bullet Technology, HCR 62, Box 145, Moyie Springs, ID 83845.
That's a great description of the ins and outs of cast lead bullets Boomer.
I will add one thing to the point quoted here though. If the bullet is chosen so it is a touch larger than the bore's groove diameter and provided the cylinder throat doesn't form it to a smaller size then it'll fit to the bore without the need to obturate. And in fact that's the classic fit that is aimed for with cast lead in rifles.
Other than this added point that was a great description of the possible issues. And in fact much of my reading about all this suggests that this, more than the improper alloy, is the cause of lead deposits in the bore.
Amol…I'm guessing you got your answer from the guys above(much more knowledgeable than myself). For me….I find SWC make "cleaner" holes and mostly more accurate. I'm really liking the SWC 45ACP stuff I recently picked up for my S&W PC 625.
Cast too hard and, I suspect, too hard a lube for the velocity. I had some 158 cast I was backing with 5.5 bullseye in .357 and they leaded like buggery after as few as 20 rounds. By smearing soft black powder lube on the noses and first driving band I was able to shoot the rest of that batch off with much less leading.
These are the cactus plains bullets, btw.
These are the cactus plains bullets, btw.
