Which round to use?????

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scotiangunlover

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Hey guys,gonna pick your brains for a minute. I'm hunting whitetail in the bush at 150 yards max. Using a scoped Marlin 1895 in 45-70. I have two rounds to pick from, Hornady 325 grain FTX and Remington 405 grain sp core-lokt. Anyone have any experience with these rounds? Not sure which one I am going to use yet.
 
I found the 325 FTX to be the most accurate load in my GG. I have not been able to replicate it with handloads. My best handloads in the heavy hitters is with 350 RN's, but Powder Coated 405 HP are pretty good. For factory loads, though, the LeverEvolutions win hands down, and the only critter I got with it was a 200 or so pound wild boar which was a bang-flop.
 
I was leaning towards the Hornady but now I'm def gonna go with them, supposed to shoot a little flatter than the round or flat nose rounds as well. Thanks for the info guys. :)
 
scotiangunlover said:
I was leaning towards the Hornady but now I'm def gonna go with them, supposed to shoot a little flatter than the round or flat nose rounds as well. Thanks for the info guys. :)
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They do shoot a little flatter, but sighted in for 100 yds, if I recall, the drop at 200 is something like 11 inches.
 
While both will work on deer I'd use the heavy 405 gr Remington. Both barrels of my gun shoot them very well as with every marlin I've loaded for. They always work. They expand to perfect mushrooms even at low velocity and break bones well. The flex tip sheds its jacket quite often in my experience. I've also noticed they flatten right out at close range impacts when factory muzzle velocity is still high. Deer are thin skinned thin animals and the flex tip will kill them but the old Remington has a proven record and always works. Sight in for 100 yards and aim center mass for 150 yards you're good to go
 
brybenn said:
While both will work on deer I'd use the heavy 405 gr Remington. Both barrels of my gun shoot them very well as with every marlin I've loaded for. They always work. They expand to perfect mushrooms even at low velocity and break bones well. The flex tip sheds its jacket quite often in my experience. I've also noticed they flatten right out at close range impacts when factory muzzle velocity is still high. Deer are thin skinned thin animals and the flex tip will kill them but the old Remington has a proven record and always works. Sight in for 100 yards and aim center mass for 150 yards you're good to go
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This is correct about the jacket shedding. While I am sure they would still take down a deer, why risk it. When I rebuilt my wooden backstop I recovered a lot of bullets out of it, It was quite interesting to see the results. As brybenn mentioned above a vast majority of the FTX had total separation of the Jacket. This resulted from penetrating into plywood. I would suggest the 405 Rem. Tried and tested over many years.
 
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I don't own a lever action so my advice/opinion doesn't mean a thing ..... but, if I did the first thing I'd be looking at is Hornady Leverloution.
 
I've shot cast, factory, and handloads. Personally, for hunting, if the LeverEvolution weren't so hard to find, they would be my go-to. I can get the bullets, but have not yet found a handload that gets me anywhere near the accuracy of the factory stuff. But I think it's all a question of choice - there are not a lot of critters that will resist a 45-70.
 
For deer it doesn't much matter. If you plan on hunting bigger heavier animals you want a better bullet to take advantage of what the 45/70 has to offer. I wish I could post pics of recovered bullets

If you can find a bunch of 4L water jugs. Fill them up and cap them or just shoot new jugs they're only 97 cents at no frills. Line a bunch up side to side and shoot center mass. This gives you an idea of wound cavity and penetration. Yes it's not an animal but it's revealing of bullet characteristics. Factory leverution 325 gr flex tip destroys the first jug the jacket is in th second or third jug with lead fragments the rest of the broken core is in th bottom of the forth jug. These jugs are about 3" wide. The Remington express load Leaves a perfect mushroom in the bottom of the 7 th or 8 th jug. My hand loaded 405 gr silver cast alloy from Oregon trail goes thru 10 jugs and keeps going
I stand 20 yards away when shooting this test as I use my 45/70 when I bait bears and hunt in thick bush. The same results are repeated in wet newspapers and sand. The Hornady flex tip didn't make it thru an 8"x8" block. The Remington express left a 2" exit hole. My hand loads with the hard cast left 1/2" holes.
I big white tail buck has say 1/2" fur and hide 1/2" fat. 1/2"-1" meat then 1/2" ribs then lungs for 10-12" roughly. Clearly any bullet fired from a 45/70 will work on a broadside lung shot. Even hornadys 300 gr giant hollow point half copper jacketed bullet. Now if that trophy buck is angled 45 degrees are you confident your bullet will cross the body and reach the other side traveling thru the vitals? Or breaking the on side shoulder and continue on its intended course with enough mass and momentum to get the job done? Will the results be the same at 10 yards as they would be at 150 yards? Remember deer don't read advertising. They drop or run when hit with a bullet
 
A late season fall bear say a nice 300 lb boar comes out. 1" of fur 1/4" thick skin 4" of fat 2" of meat before the ribs. Bears ribs are easy to break but remember that Hornady slipped its jacket is 3-5" of water. That's a broadside shot. Bears have thick hard heavy leg bones and strong shoulders. I know the Remington 405 gr flat nose does a great job on fall bears. I wouldn't trust the 325 gr flex tip on a bear.
I realize someone will say it's the best bear bullet on the market right after this post. That's the Internet for you.
It's best to buy a box of each and set up various tests yourself and see how each does. Trigger time with your hunting gun is never a bad thing
 
brybenn said:
A late season fall bear say a nice 300 lb boar comes out. 1" of fur 1/4" thick skin 4" of fat 2" of meat before the ribs. Bears ribs are easy to break but remember that Hornady slipped its jacket is 3-5" of water. That's a broadside shot. Bears have thick hard heavy leg bones and strong shoulders. I know the Remington 405 gr flat nose does a great job on fall bears. I wouldn't trust the 325 gr flex tip on a bear.
I realize someone will say it's the best bear bullet on the market right after this post. That's the Internet for you.
It's best to buy a box of each and set up various tests yourself and see how each does. Trigger time with your hunting gun is never a bad thing
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Interesting that you've done all these tests. You have me convinced. I know that cast lead bullets provide excellent penetration and mushrooming. I use pure or close to pure lead, powder coated. I'll try some expansion tests with them. I tried in wet sand with my cast 44 Mags and consistently get a nice rounded button about 7/8 to 1 inch diameter, with about 95% retention. I had not heard of the jacket shedding with the FTX's.

Congrats on your work.
 
Assumed you will be using factory loads - the Remington 405gr FN at 1300 fps MV or the Hornady 325gr FTX at 2000 fps MV. Maximum range stated is 150 yards so the flatter trajectory of the FTX bullet isn't needed. I've taken game with the 300gr HP and 405gr FN. The FTX is similar to the 300gr HP except it has a ballistic tip.

On a 150lb Whitetail either bullet will get the job done. Whichever one suits your fancy. :p

Here's a photo of a 405gr FN handloaded at 1850 fps MV recovered from a Bull Moose. It was a quartering shot at about 75 yards. The bullet impacted the upper shoulder at about 1600 fps at that range, smashed through the shoulder bone, severed the spinal chord and lodged in its neck - an instant kill. Total penetration was about 1.5 ft.

405.jpg


1895XLR-1_zps180e1a57.jpg

Marlin 1895XLR .45-70 with Weaver V3 1-3x20mm scope

1895XLR-2_zps162f9477.jpg
 
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The original 45-70 spec was to kill a horse at 800 yards (volley fire), or something like that.

It's a whitetail, not a rhinoceros. There's no need to debate bullet construction. Put Tab A in slot B, and it will die.
 
brybenn said:
A late season fall bear say a nice 300 lb boar comes out. 1" of fur 1/4" thick skin 4" of fat 2" of meat before the ribs. Bears ribs are easy to break but remember that Hornady slipped its jacket is 3-5" of water. That's a broadside shot. Bears have thick hard heavy leg bones and strong shoulders. I know the Remington 405 gr flat nose does a great job on fall bears. I wouldn't trust the 325 gr flex tip on a bear.
I realize someone will say it's the best bear bullet on the market right after this post. That's the Internet for you.
It's best to buy a box of each and set up various tests yourself and see how each does. Trigger time with your hunting gun is never a bad thing
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The problem with all of this is a deer is nowhere near the width of 8+ milk jugs. Penetration is good, but there is such a thing as too much penetration especially on deer sized animals imo.

If you are getting that sort of penetration, you are not dumping much energy into the animal, you are just poking a hole. Personally i believe in dumping as much energy into the animal to get the best chance at a bang flop, so i would go with the hornady.

Edit - i was actually referencing your previous post, but quoted the wrong one, and I'm not even going to try to fix it from my phone...
 
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