Which to buy, a Rock River Arms M4 or CMMG M4...without splitting hairs here guys,lol

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neil754

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Thanks, I am just looking for some advice here on my latest M4 purchase. Yes I have had others, Norc, Colt, used buddies homemade M4s, and shot Bushmasters and Armalites. Maybe LMT, and I can pony up $2000, who knows.......rather spend it on ammo though!
I am only going to buy one and got sick of having 3 of them hanging around and have realized I only need one. So should I go Rock River or CMMG, only want to spend a max of $1500. Colt would be nice, but I have been down that road, and it is steep, and no big differences from the others above I have shot and mentioned.
Alright Shooters, lets have it, without getting heated here.........CMMG or Rock River for my Choice of M4? Opinions and experiences, lets have them....
(Maybe I need an old lady too, lol, soon enough, need another M4 first)
 
I just bought a New CMMG M4 off the EE, extremely happy with the rifle. Its tight, very little wiggle between the lower and upper. It has a nice finish. Functions flawlessly. Be careful not to get one with a permanently attached flash hider in case you ever want to change it. I heard a few of their models have that.

Never had a Rock River Arms.
 
Both are good.

It will really depend on what type of shooting you plan on doing.

Rock River Arms (RRA) AR-15s are great for shooting small groups because most if not all of them come with their two stage national match trigger group which really helps. If you want to do service rifle with a full sized AR-15 it is a great gun for it. Look carefully at which barrel it comes with. Most are chrome moly and not chrome lined. Some of the the higher end models use Wilson barrels which are better than the standard barrels.

CMMG are great as well. They have a 5.56 NATO chamber unlike the .223 Wylde chamber generally found on RRA rifles. CMMG also magnetic particle inspect (MPI) every barrel according to their website. Their chambers and bores are chromed lined and not chrome moly. Most of the CMMG also come with a 1 in 7 inch twist whereas RRA usually uses 1 in 9 inch twist or 1 in 8 inch twist for some models. CMMG uses Milspec sized tubes whereas RRA uses commerical sized buttstock tubes.

It really depends on what you want and what you plan on doing.
 
If your getting from questar. They install their own commerical buttstock on the CMMG rifles. Some of the CMMG rifles they have are in 1 in 9 inch twist instead of 1 in 7 inch twist.

Just did a quick search.
 
Get neither. Get an LMT or at the very least a Stag! They will have the most mil spec features as well as 5.56 barrels/chambers. Also both can be had in 1/7 which is more desirable then the 1/9. Go for a 16" barrel if you want a carbine as opposed to the 14.5". You get better ballistics out of the 16" and it's still just as handy as the shorter barrel.

Of coarse my opinion is based solely on the assumption you want a tactical carbine instead of something to bench rest with.

If I didn't have my LMTs I'd have a Stag, 16", 1/7, 5.56 chamber. Colt is a waste. Especially with their ghay over-sized trigger group pins.:puke:
 
Raytheon said:
If your getting from questar. They install their own commerical buttstock on the CMMG rifles. Some of the CMMG rifles they have are in 1 in 9 inch twist instead of 1 in 7 inch twist.

Just did a quick search.
Click to expand...

Some models have Mil-Spec and some have Commercial tubes... depends on what export permit restrictions were at time of export. In some cases we had to export without stocks and install our own tubes and stocks once they arrived in Canada.

We now have Mil-Spec tubes so if you want the Mil-Spec stock on a model that shows Commercial just ask... for a small additional charge we'll install the Mil-Spec version.

Mark
 
Thanks for the update Mark.

I only did a quick look at a few of the CMMG rifles listed on your website.

Nice to know you guys can put a mil-spec tube if we prefer.

Thanks again and sorry about the confusion.
 
I have a CMMG 14.5" "M4"-type rifle, and I have a 7" 9mm RRA AR-15. I agree that I don't think you can go wrong with either company. I have been really, really impressed with both. The other day (last Sunday) I was saying to one of the Range Officer's at my range how this gun (the M4) is just a really, really nice firearm, and how I have absolutely no desire to get any other kind of AR, at any price. Never had any issues with it. It probably shoots damn close to 1 MOA. I don't really shoot off of rests, but I know that I can pick off orange clays at 25, 50, 75, and 100 yards without difficulty (or adjusting the sight, a 3x ACOG compact). I can wail on the 230 yard gong all day long, every shot, the way it is set up. And it is light, relatively small, and pointable.

On another point, relating to the above posts, the CMMG rifle I have is 100% CMMG from the plastic buttstock on up. Assembled (as a lower) in Missouri, not in Ontario (not that there is anything wrong with assembling things in Ontario). It is also the mil-spec tube. It is not all one way or the other. Ask when you are ordering and get the one you want.

I could say good things about my RRA too, but I know it is not the model you are looking at.

Here are my two AR's: Small plug. Both of these fine firearms come from the fine people at Questar. Well, I suppose that is obvious as no one else even orders this stuff in.
CMMG8.jpg
 
Thanks guys, all the info has been really great!!! I dont think I can go wrong with either!!!
 
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angryeyebrows said:
Get neither. Get an LMT or at the very least a Stag! They will have the most mil spec features as well as 5.56 barrels/chambers. Also both can be had in 1/7 which is more desirable then the 1/9. Go for a 16" barrel if you want a carbine as opposed to the 14.5". You get better ballistics out of the 16" and it's still just as handy as the shorter barrel.

Of coarse my opinion is based solely on the assumption you want a tactical carbine instead of something to bench rest with.

If I didn't have my LMTs I'd have a Stag, 16", 1/7, 5.56 chamber. Colt is a waste. Especially with their ghay over-sized trigger group pins.:puke:
Click to expand...

Recent production COLT LE6920's and LE6940's have standard Mil-Spec size fire control pins (trigger group pins) so that's no longer an issue

Mark
 
I'll put a vote in for 14.5". I really feel it is the "natural" length for M4-style carbines. I know I wouldn't want anything any longer. If you are going to go long, you may as well get a 20" and get the most out of the balistics argument.

A number of the guys at my range have told me that they wish they would have gotten a 14.5" instead of a 16". 16", in my view is something that basically came into effect to comply with U.S. federal laws. The "real" military-style carbines are 14.5" in my humble opinion. I understand there are some 16" carbines in use with various militaries, but nothing like the number of 14.5's. Keep in mind as well that AR's look and feel long off the front compared to other types of rifles with similar barrel lengths. For example, this Swiss has a 14.3" barrel. The CZ858 has a 15.4" barrel. The AR in these pics is 14.5". The AR barrel looks very long by comparison.
CMMG10.jpg

CMMG9.jpg


Some vids of the 14.5" in use:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX2oADlTXGo&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K7V6xn5uHY&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZLT4FMubSo&feature=related

Some more pics of the CMMG. The quality is fantastic on these.
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ghostie said:
Keep in mind as well that AR's look and feel long off the front compared to other types of rifles with similar barrel lengths. For example, this Swiss has a 14.3" barrel. The CZ858 has a 15.4" barrel. The AR in these pics is 14.5". The AR barrel looks very long by comparison.
Click to expand...

Because you did not compare the rifles properly.

You need to line up the triggers in the picture - the Swiss arms receiver itself is about 1 1/2 longer than AR.

Second, the swiss arms barrel is `14.3", including the flash suppressor (about 12.5" rifling). The M4 barrel is 14.5" of rifled barrel + flash suppressor.
 
Yes, I realize that. And that is a good point, but I am just talking about the "look and feel" of the guns.

("Keep in mind as well that AR's look and feel long off the front compared to other types of rifles with similar barrel lengths. For example, this Swiss has a 14.3" barrel. The CZ858 has a 15.4" barrel. The AR in these pics is 14.5". The AR barrel looks very long by comparison.")

As between these three rifles, in my view the CZ clearly has the most "compact" feel to it when in use, and the AR definitely feels the longest. I personally would not want any more barrel out on the front of that gun.

In the U.S., the 16" carbines are pretty much a "non-restricted" firearm, whereas the 14.5"'s are Class III NFA firearms. In Canada, where AR's are all restricted (in ways that would make Americans cringe), I just don't see the point of that extra inch and a half (plus the flashhider). To my mind, it just seems to run contrary to the overall logic of the "carbine" concept.

On the original question in the thread, my advice is: (1) RRA and CMMG are both fantastic companies that make excellent products. I own rifles made by both and I'm happy with both; (2) I would take a serious look at the differences in barrel lengths before buying, and what you actually like the feel of. My own investigation of this issue caused me to buy a 14.5" and I have not regretted this.
 
greentips said:
Because you did not compare the rifles properly.

You need to line up the triggers in the picture - the Swiss arms receiver itself is about 1 1/2 longer than AR.

Second, the swiss arms barrel is `14.3", including the flash suppressor (about 12.5" rifling). The M4 barrel is 14.5" of rifled barrel + flash suppressor.
Click to expand...

Plus look how long the fixed stock on the SA is. I shoot at 16" AR with a SOPMOD stock fully collapsed and it doesn't feel that long at all. Plus it's FAR lighter and I can shoot it all day without getting tired.
 
I went with a Rock River Arms from Questar, more Specifically, The CAR A4 with a straight heavy 16 inch Barrel with a 1-9 twist and 6 position stock for $1299.99. This leaves money left over for ammo, accesories, and backup savings money for whatever. I will shoot her with open sights, I have a 6920 Colt carry handle, and tons of mags.
I will be on here to give feed back, Ill probably do a 250 rounds break in, with lots of different loads I have stock piled, 40gr to 77gr, fmj, Sp, HP, etc etc etc.(Expecting typical 1 moa to 1.5 moa groups)
I fired off my money today, so I should see my M4 or CAR A4 as RRA calls it, in a few weeks, I live in AB, so who knows when it will showup, but I have patience and cold and crappy weather is on the way for the first shoot, minus 24 next week! Wish me luck, lol!
Ill post feed back.
Thanks Shooters and Questar for pretty much having the most well priced known M4 in country!
Stay Frosty
 
P.S. I sold my 20in and my 10.5in AR-M4s, I only need one, and 16inch is the perfect inbetween.
With the extra cash off the 10.5 or 20, I still have money for ammo and whatever. Maybe a nice ACOG, lol. Until next time shooters, thanks for all the advice and pics, and massive amount of input you all put into this. Id like to stay and argue what is best, but onto a lady friend now, to take shooting my new CAR A4 with!
Stay Frosty
 
If you are getting a 16" barrel, get a midlength gas system. It seems silly to me to have a car length gas system with a longer barrel.
 
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