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Which was the better gun, Luger or C96?
- Thread starter Colin
- Start date
F#$K a duck! (Cocked&Locked raises his hand and admits the error of his ways)
The luger round IS lower pressure, a 93gn bullet at 1220fps
the tok is a 87 gn at 1390, and the mauser a 86 gn at 1410.
That might be what the book says, here's the reality
Factory .30 Luger loads, 5 shots average, Swiss 06/29 4.75" barrel:
Winchester 1132fps
Fiocchi FMJ 1204 fps
Fiocchi JSP 1180 fps
an old box of Western 1218 fps
Remington Kleenbore (rem-umc) 1222fps
Norma 1117 fps
Peters FMJ 1133 fps
WRA.co FMJ 1137 fps
WRA.co Truncated HP 1269 fps
Kynoch FMJ 1283 fps (one hi shot of 1306fps)
Swiss 03 FMJ 1193 fps
.30 Mauser Factory ammuntion out of a M30 Broomhandle 5.2" barrel
Fiocchi 1247fps
Finnish made 7.63 ammo dated 1958 1265fps
DWM 1345fps
.30 Tokarev out of a Tokarev pistol
Sellier and Bellot commercial 1390fps
1986 nny Yugo 1395fps
So the reality is that it all depends on the ammunition. Most .30 Mauser does not go as fast as advertised. Some .30 Luger rounds are smoking (Before you open your mouth, .30 Luger rounds for carbine had identifying marks on them.) None of these rounds tested are "carbine" rounds.
I do feel that ammunition manufactures are downloading the older cartridges now a days. Fiocchi's .30 Mauser round has one hell of a BANG when it goes off, but it does not do what their catalog states. Same goes for Winchester's .30 Luger round. Great brass for reloading, but the factory loading sucks.
If you want to see what the old calibers can do, find older ammunition.
They do have a 9mm bottle neck cartridge, it's called the .357SIG
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i admit that the luger is the better handgun, but comparing these 2 is like comparing apples to oranges.
but considering the 12 years age difference and the amount of changes and improvements that should happen in that span, i would choose the c96
but considering the 12 years age difference and the amount of changes and improvements that should happen in that span, i would choose the c96
Cocked and Locked, don't worry about it. Both the Luger round and the Mauser round are fairly hard to come by, and although I'm sure there are enthusiasts who shoot them, I'd bet there aren't many. My friend has been shooting the two kinds of guns with the two kinds of ammunition for years and has never had a problem, but I understand your concern. Personally, I don't like to shoot anything but the ammunition made for the gun I'm shooting. Only the Tokarev round is "current", and it's slowly on the way out as well. I have owned both Lugers and Mausers (never owned a Tokarev), and have reloaded for them over many years. You can get better performance through handloading, but I'm not sure anything is really gained outside velocity. Besides, 9mm is so plentiful.
Sticker, thanks for the analysis. When I was a lot younger I used to chronograph regularly. If you're going to be serious about shooting, you just have to do that. Clearly, the Luger round is just less energetic than the other two. I've found both the Tokarev and the Czech CZ-52 unpleasant to shoot. The muzzle blast from that cartridge bothers me. I suppose in combat no one cares, but I've never had to depend on one in combat. In fact, although I've carried a pistol, I've never used one to shoot at another person.
Sticker, thanks for the analysis. When I was a lot younger I used to chronograph regularly. If you're going to be serious about shooting, you just have to do that. Clearly, the Luger round is just less energetic than the other two. I've found both the Tokarev and the Czech CZ-52 unpleasant to shoot. The muzzle blast from that cartridge bothers me. I suppose in combat no one cares, but I've never had to depend on one in combat. In fact, although I've carried a pistol, I've never used one to shoot at another person.
