White Tail/Mule deer Hybrid
- Thread starter Boomer454
- Start date
- Location
- Cold Lake, Alberta
wow... never seen a rack like that before!!
100% mule deer.
The body, tail and coloration are all mulie. The long metatarsal gland on your guy however is the give-a-way. All Whitetail/Mule deer hybrids that have been verified using DNA testing have a metatarsal that are about half the length of the one showing in your picture or about 2-3 times as large as the relatively small metatarsal on a whitetail.
Strange antlers abound and they are far from being rare.
Here is a strange one we took a few years ago:
Found this just posted tonight on HBC
So tell me now they are sterile??
Like as been stated I think the only real way to know for sure is DNA. But as to which one to tag. In BC I was told by the ministry it's the tail and not the rack, as they can be misleading, YA THINK!!!!
So tell me now they are sterile??
Like as been stated I think the only real way to know for sure is DNA. But as to which one to tag. In BC I was told by the ministry it's the tail and not the rack, as they can be misleading, YA THINK!!!!
Yep! We didn't put it there though.
Another hunter was so fascinated at this guys weird headgear that he was fixated on it when he took the shot. Hybrids - while very rare in the wild - do exist and most are fertile. The problem is that very few make it to breeding age before something eats them.
Mule deer and Whitetails have drastically different escape strategies from predators. Mule deer will stott - bounce with all four feet hitting the ground at the same time - which while slower than a white tail's galloping does allow quick changes of direction as well as the ability to use obstacles to slow down their pursuers. When sneaking away won't work a whitetail will just get down and try and outrun whatever is chasing it using a three-beat gait like a horse. The hybrid however stumbles along trying to stott but - like me on a dance floor - it soon looses the rhythm and as it can't properly gallop either it usually gets eaten. Research using captive hybrid deer has shown that stotting is so specialized that any deer that is less than 100% pure mulie can't do it. Similarly any whitetail that is not 100% pure will have trouble avoiding predators.
i've seen muley bucks with mixed herds of muley and whitetail does. i've also seen mixed herds of muleys and bighorn sheep, as well as whitetails with elk.
i think it has more to do with more sets of eyes than anything else.
- Location
- AB foothills
There is also a bit of palmation that doesn't show too well in the pic. While it is a pure mule deer it looks like it is a mule deer / whitetail / caribou / moose cross with a little bit of Paul Watson thrown in.
I should also mention that when RCG shot this guy we were stalking into range of a 180 - 185 class typical mulie we had glassed. When the weird one got up out of a bed all I heard was Rich mutter "I want that one!" I tried to talk him out of it but he said he could always get a chance at a big typical but ugly only comes along once in a while.
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I have no proof. But apparently they exist really close to home (Salmon Arm, BC) a couple ranges have whitetails, but not enough (yet) to run the mulies off, and there is a freaky hybrid species going on. I have seen whitetail bucks hanging out with mulie does in those parts, and if I ever shoot one (in the face of course!) I will bring the pics straight here.
Hey. I started this debate
since they are in the same genus, isn't it a biological requirement that they CAN hybridize? and if they CANNOT, wouldn't they be placed in different genus'?
- Location
- AB foothills
ROTFLMAO !!!!!!!
You guys must be noobs to the intraweb.
Trollin trollin trollin, PGKris a trollin........
- Location
- Cold Lake, Alberta
hey PGKRIS wrong again huh?
read this and STFU!!
clips from http://www.coueswhitetail.com/coues_biology/hybrids.htm
In the case of whitetails and mule deer, courtship and breeding behavior is different enough that body language and scent cues given off by a female mule deer during rut are not "understood" by a male whitetail and vice versa. Also, in many areas where their range overlaps, the rut peaks at slightly different times for the 2 species. This system of species segregation has worked remarkably well throughout their evolutionary coexistence. However, in rare cases this system breaks down and genetic material slips across the behavioral barrier, resulting in a deer that is half whitetail and half mule deer. This hybridization between the two different deer species is extremely rare but does occur throughout the West where their ranges overlap.
These bucks show characteristics which are intermediate between mule deer and whitetails. Body size and facial features indicate a mule deer but the tail is usually dark chocolate brown or black on top and white underneath. The tail of a hybrid looks very much like a typical whitetail, but is frequently much darker. Ears are normally larger than a whitetail but smaller than a mule deer. The preorbital gland in front of the eye is also intermediate between the deep pits found in mule deer and the shallow depression of whitetails.
What about the antlers? Forget about the antlers; this is a worthless characteristic to judge whether an animal is a hybrid or not. Most documented hybrids have whitetail-like antlers but you can’t count on antlers alone. I have 3 sets of antlers in my livingroom: 2 are whitetails with forked primary tines (G2) and the third is a desert mule deer with 8 long points, all arising from the mainbeam. There is simply too much variation in antlers to serve as a reliable indicator of hybridization. The whitetails in the Carmen Mountains of northern Mexico have been shown to exhibit a high degree of forked antlers like mule deer.
The best feature to determine if a deer is a hybrid is the size of the metatarsal gland, which is located on the outside of the lower portion of the rear legs. This should not be confused with the tarsal glands on the inside of the legs. The metatarsals on mule deer sit high on the lower leg and are 3 to 6 inches long and surrounded by light brown fur. The whitetail's metatarsals are at or below the mid-point of the lower leg, usually less than 1 inch, and surrounded by white hairs. A whitetail-mule deer hybrid has metatarsal glands that split the difference, usually measuring between 2-4 inches and encircled with white hair.
read this and STFU!!
clips from http://www.coueswhitetail.com/coues_biology/hybrids.htm
In the case of whitetails and mule deer, courtship and breeding behavior is different enough that body language and scent cues given off by a female mule deer during rut are not "understood" by a male whitetail and vice versa. Also, in many areas where their range overlaps, the rut peaks at slightly different times for the 2 species. This system of species segregation has worked remarkably well throughout their evolutionary coexistence. However, in rare cases this system breaks down and genetic material slips across the behavioral barrier, resulting in a deer that is half whitetail and half mule deer. This hybridization between the two different deer species is extremely rare but does occur throughout the West where their ranges overlap.
These bucks show characteristics which are intermediate between mule deer and whitetails. Body size and facial features indicate a mule deer but the tail is usually dark chocolate brown or black on top and white underneath. The tail of a hybrid looks very much like a typical whitetail, but is frequently much darker. Ears are normally larger than a whitetail but smaller than a mule deer. The preorbital gland in front of the eye is also intermediate between the deep pits found in mule deer and the shallow depression of whitetails.
What about the antlers? Forget about the antlers; this is a worthless characteristic to judge whether an animal is a hybrid or not. Most documented hybrids have whitetail-like antlers but you can’t count on antlers alone. I have 3 sets of antlers in my livingroom: 2 are whitetails with forked primary tines (G2) and the third is a desert mule deer with 8 long points, all arising from the mainbeam. There is simply too much variation in antlers to serve as a reliable indicator of hybridization. The whitetails in the Carmen Mountains of northern Mexico have been shown to exhibit a high degree of forked antlers like mule deer.
The best feature to determine if a deer is a hybrid is the size of the metatarsal gland, which is located on the outside of the lower portion of the rear legs. This should not be confused with the tarsal glands on the inside of the legs. The metatarsals on mule deer sit high on the lower leg and are 3 to 6 inches long and surrounded by light brown fur. The whitetail's metatarsals are at or below the mid-point of the lower leg, usually less than 1 inch, and surrounded by white hairs. A whitetail-mule deer hybrid has metatarsal glands that split the difference, usually measuring between 2-4 inches and encircled with white hair.
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I was talking to a CO about this a while back and he said as others on this thread have, that it only happens when a Mule buck breads a Whitetail doe. It can't happen the other way around.
The reason? Whitetail does are more, ahem, "accomodating" and encourage/help the buck penetrate. Mule deer does it seems are not! They fight the process and only the bigger agressive bucks are sucessfull this way. And its more like a case of rape by the agressive Mule buck when they are bread. Whitetails have not evolved this way. They're more like us - ### is good. ### for everyone!
Kind of makes sence. You see the classic pictures of a whitetail doe head down but up, calling and calling. Never seen a mule doe do that..
The reason? Whitetail does are more, ahem, "accomodating" and encourage/help the buck penetrate. Mule deer does it seems are not! They fight the process and only the bigger agressive bucks are sucessfull this way. And its more like a case of rape by the agressive Mule buck when they are bread. Whitetails have not evolved this way. They're more like us - ### is good. ### for everyone!
Kind of makes sence. You see the classic pictures of a whitetail doe head down but up, calling and calling. Never seen a mule doe do that..
not entirely true, under normal circumstances, the attached head is considered evidence of species and ### (at least in bc). with deer i skin it, tail and all, and just leave the head on, it only takes 10 seconds to pop it off with a knife once it is delivered to the butcher.
but i agree with you, IF a guy shot a vague hybrid looking deer, the tail would be the way to to say what kind of deer it is.
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