Who is salt bath annealing and what are the pros/cons?

BattleRife said:
The chief pro of salt bath is the precision and consistency with which the heat can be applied. Modern digital controllers that cost 25 bucks can hold temperatures to within a degree. Heat transfer rates from a liquid to a solid are orders of magnitude higher than gases to solids, so if you immerse a case to a certain level annealing will take place in the immersed regions almost instantly, while areas just a couple of millimeters above the liquid line will take several seconds to anneal. You know what a .22 TCM is? Try to anneal of those, or even a .22 Hornet, with a flame and consistently anneal just the neck. With salt bath it's a piece of cake.

The biggest con currently will be availability, particularly of the salt. I sold the kits and supplies from 2017-2022; I was buying the blended salt from Park Thermal in Milton, ON. But then Park dropped the salt business and suddenly I had to buy from Durferrit in Germany. The salt from them was ground much finer and raised a lot of dust. The paper packing absorbed moisture and allowed the salt to clump. And the price doubled. You can try to make your own but potassium nitrate is regulated as an explosive precursor and sodium nitrite is regulated as an aquatic toxin so it will not be easy. The other bits and pieces I manufactured can be replicated but honestly the tools and designs I had were, in my opinion, pretty slick. Something you cobble together probably won't work as well.

The cons side of the equation got worse when I used my resources to really dig into annealing. I confirmed to myself that virtually everything shooters think they know about annealing is wrong. It was difficult to market a product starting with the premise that the customer has to be re-educated. And I had no interest in simply repeating the falsehoods to drive sales. I never once mentioned in my promotions or on my website that salt bath annealing could improve accuracy. But I was acutely aware that most of my customers were buying it for that purpose. The induction systems caught the imagination of a lot of people, sales of salt bath stuff went into decline so when the salt became a headache I just abandoned it. I see kits pop up on the used market from time to time, but the salt does run out eventually. You get something like 5000 cases annealed per jar of salt.


I completely agree the need is overstated. The only proven benefit of annealing is to prevent neck cracking. Neck cracking is caused by corrosion in storage. Whether or not your ammo suffers depends on where it is stored, and how long, which is why some people experience neck cracks and some do not. I used to get about 80% neck cracking every spring of the .223 and .308 ammo I had reloaded the previous fall for my AR15 and M14 rifles. If you are not experiencing something like that, you probably don't need to anneal.


I hate this approach. Given the high conductivity of brass, the cases go from perfectly comfortable to painfully hot faster than human reaction time, meaning you will cause yourself physical pain with each and every case. Why would anyone do that? Count the seconds or watch for colour change or something.


Salt bath uses nitrate salts, which are essentially non-corrosive to iron and copper based metals. Priming salts, road salts, sea salts and table salts are chloride salts and yes, they can cause significant corrosion.

For those who do want to anneal, I would also recommend an automated flame setup of some kind for most cases. The truth is the fantastic precision and consistency of salt bath is not needed for most applications. The window of temperature that relieves stresses enough to prevent stress-corrosion cracking without affecting the case microstructure is huge, 450-600°C. And frankly, I've seen no evidence that "overheating" the cases to 800°C causes any real problems (induction annealers do it all the time).

Admittedly if you've got a .22 TCM you're kind of stuck.
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Wow thanks for that really informative reply , so the science is sound and really hard to source materials etc… I think I will climb out of this rabbit hole and jump down another heheh thank you BattlerRifle!
 
I am one of those customer's of BattleRife - I bought his Salt Bath Annealer "kit" and a couple spare jugs of his "salts" - I am gonna say that I got circa 20 out of 80 necks cracked on once or twice fired 7x57 RP brass that had been in my storage about 10 years since last fired - so I thought the batch needed to be "annealed" - on the next 50 or so cases, after salt bath annealing - I got 3 cases split necks when FLS - so a huge improvement, I thought (and still think so). But some people want "perfect" - do not ever want to throw away any cases. I'm not sure if flame annealing would have improved my results.

An FYI for some - besides that "kit", I also had a Lee brand "Precision Melter" which that Kit fit into - I think that one is rated to hold 10 pounds melted lead. I cast my own lead bullets at that time - if I did not, I would have had to buy that melter pot when I tried the Salt Bath Annealing system.
 
Potashminer said:
I am one of those customer's of BattleRife - I bought his Salt Bath Annealer "kit" and a couple spare jugs of his "salts" - I am gonna say that I got circa 20 out of 80 necks cracked on once or twice fired 7x57 RP brass that had been in my storage about 10 years since last fired - so I thought the batch needed to be "annealed" - on the next 50 or so cases, after salt bath annealing - I got 3 cases split necks when FLS - so a huge improvement, I thought (and still think so). But some people want "perfect" - do not ever want to throw away any cases. I'm not sure if flame annealing would have improved my results.

An FYI for some - besides that "kit", I also had a Lee brand "Precision Melter" which that Kit fit into - I think that one is rated to hold 10 pounds melted lead. I cast my own lead bullets at that time - if I did not, I would have had to buy that melter pot when I tried the Salt Bath Annealing system.
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Thats good to know, thanks
Did some brass up last night and rolled up 100 today and had my first neck crack since starting last year, had 111 brass prepped just incase and needed one of those extras so it looks like I am learning about brass life now too. Will be monitoring these 100 closely now, a few are also getting really easy to set primers so looks like most of these are on the last (or close to) run. This is my .223 supply and have couple thou left so no tears shed.
 
Ghillbert said:
Thats good to know, thanks
Did some brass up last night and rolled up 100 today and had my first neck crack since starting last year, had 111 brass prepped just incase and needed one of those extras so it looks like I am learning about brass life now too. Will be monitoring these 100 closely now, a few are also getting really easy to set primers so looks like most of these are on the last (or close to) run. This is my .223 supply and have couple thou left so no tears shed.
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Those were about the first necks that I ever had crack, and I had been making my own rifle ammo since the 1980's. I had never "annealed" cases previously - never thought that I had to. Since then, I have had a number of W-W 22-250 cases crack, and found some "once fired" factory 22-250 that must have cracked when they were fired - the cases were undoubtably never re-loaded since fired from factory load, but four of them had cracked necks. I am not sure if the shooter knew they had let go, at the time, or if those necks were cracked before the rounds were fired..
 
Ghillbert said:
I’m pretty new at reloading about a year now so I have alot to learn, maybe I don’t need to.
Are you getting many reloads before replacing ? Im just getting to 3rd and 4th loads on this brass so far and no, no issues yet but yes its talked about alot so I am curious if it is worthwhile for me vs just replacing when it goes.
I like some of your ideas but not sure if my brass will share those creature comforts with me so might get expensive with no upside to me 😆
Thanks for the reply, good to hear that it isn’t necessarily a need.
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In answer to your question, and sorry for the late reply!.....:);)

The times a case can be reloaded varies. Manufacturer of the brass can make a difference, the caliber makes a difference, and how hot the load makes a difference. So sometimes you get 10-12 loads per brass, and other times one can get as few as three times.:unsure:

Case splits, (22 Hornet), neck splits (magnum calibers), can happen anytime. Could annealing prevented this maybe! However maybe the Liberal Government will become honest and leave our guns alone! Maybe you will get laid tonight! That's a lot of maybes.:ROFLMAO::LOL:

So no, I do not anneal, and I won't start!....:):cautious:

I love reloading and spending time at my bench, but I don't need to come up with another step in the process just because it might get me one more load out of a brass. Primer pockets are more likely to become loose before I ever worry about anything else.....:)
 
Thunderhog said:
In answer to your question, and sorry for the late reply!.....:);)

The times a case can be reloaded varies. Manufacturer of the brass can make a difference, the caliber makes a difference, and how hot the load makes a difference. So sometimes you get 10-12 loads per brass, and other times one can get as few as three times.:unsure:

Case splits, (22 Hornet), neck splits (magnum calibers), can happen anytime. Could annealing prevented this maybe! However maybe the Liberal Government will become honest and leave our guns alone! Maybe you will get laid tonight! That's a lot of maybes.:ROFLMAO::LOL:

So no, I do not anneal, and I won't start!....:):cautious:

I love reloading and spending time at my bench, but I don't need to come up with another step in the process just because it might get me one more load out of a brass. Primer pockets are more likely to become loose before I ever worry about anything else.....:)
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Thanks for the reply, a big factor for me anyway would be use case on whether or not to anneal vs cost so If I were competing it would probably make sense but not sure if it does for my use especially considering how much .223 I have so in that case just toss it but with my bigger calibers I am buying lapua brass and of course I want it to last long but may end up costing more to anneal then replace as I’m not loading batches of 1-200 at a time like the .223, and yes adding another step is not really fun if it isn’t necessary. So in the meantime I’m just gonna keep rolling them up and asking questions as I go as learning is also important and a fun part of the process especially for an overthinking fellow like myself. And who know maybe I’ll also get laid tonight and take my mind off of one crack and onto another heheh
 
Ghillbert said:
I’m pretty new at reloading about a year now so I have alot to learn, maybe I don’t need to.
Are you getting many reloads before replacing ? Im just getting to 3rd and 4th loads on this brass so far and no, no issues yet but yes its talked about alot so I am curious if it is worthwhile for me vs just replacing when it goes.
I like some of your ideas but not sure if my brass will share those creature comforts with me so might get expensive with no upside to me 😆
Thanks for the reply, good to hear that it isn’t necessarily a need.
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There are benefits to annealing. Consistent neck tension can improve accuracy but likely not enough to be life changing for a hunter or casual target shooter. Brass longevity can definitely be improved, but when primer pockets wear out the brass is finished regardless of annealing.

So it's a math calculation to determine if the $ investment in annealing equipment is worth the expense and effort. How expensive is your brass and how many reloads do you get from it with and without annealing, how much do you shoot, etc.

I still anneal to preserve brass that's hard to replace, and when reforming.
 
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Ghillbert said:
So as I get deeper into reloading I need new equipment for new steps. The latest was neck sizing dies so am comparing to fl sizing as I have to do that first on the once fired brass I have then after they are fire formed I have started neck sizing.
So now the topic of annealing is on the table and setups like AMP are out of my price range so was looking at cheaper setups and diy when salt bath popped up and seems simple enough and fairly inexpensive compared to AMP and similar price ranges of diy kits or setups and has me interested!
I have read a couple threads here on annealing but can’t recall salt bath being brought up so here we are, what are your thoughts?
Thank you
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Look at an Annie Induction annealer by Fluxeon. I have been using one for quite a few years. It works great. Way less expensive than AMP but a bit more manual. I can do 100 pieces in about 15 minutes.
 
Ghillbert said:
So as I get deeper into reloading I need new equipment for new steps. The latest was neck sizing dies so am comparing to fl sizing as I have to do that first on the once fired brass I have then after they are fire formed I have started neck sizing.
So now the topic of annealing is on the table and setups like AMP are out of my price range so was looking at cheaper setups and diy when salt bath popped up and seems simple enough and fairly inexpensive compared to AMP and similar price ranges of diy kits or setups and has me interested!
I have read a couple threads here on annealing but can’t recall salt bath being brought up so here we are, what are your thoughts?
Thank you
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I reload for a Marlin lever rifle that has a very large firring chamber.

If I don't anneal the cases prior to loading with black powder substitute I get sooty cases and a filthy rifle!

I have enough cases to anneal for 45LC and 38/55 once a year and have not had a split in 10 years. My 44SPCL cases go into a tight fitting Ruger pistola and don't get the hot salt.

I throw all cases into the stainless steel pin wet tumbler for a an hour after annealing as I fear salt transfer too. I never seem to loose any salt so this may be unnecessary, but an extra hour once a year will not be noticed.

.
 
Ghillbert said:
So as I get deeper into reloading I need new equipment for new steps. The latest was neck sizing dies so am comparing to fl sizing as I have to do that first on the once fired brass I have then after they are fire formed I have started neck sizing.
So now the topic of annealing is on the table and setups like AMP are out of my price range so was looking at cheaper setups and diy when salt bath popped up and seems simple enough and fairly inexpensive compared to AMP and similar price ranges of diy kits or setups and has me interested!
I have read a couple threads here on annealing but can’t recall salt bath being brought up so here we are, what are your thoughts?
Thank you
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I'm curious how you made out regarding "neck sizing dies" - turns out that I do not own any - maybe I should? I had been doing partial full length sizing though - there is a coin on the shelf - I set that on top of the shell holder, screw FLS die down to that - most often see that the sizing has only gone part way down that neck. At least in old days, that was claimed to also have the advantage to "centre" that fired brass in that chamber - by the unsized portion of the neck. Are you loading for a store-bought gun, or a precision, completely hand made thing?
 
Potashminer said:
I'm curious how you made out regarding "neck sizing dies" - turns out that I do not own any - maybe I should? I had been doing partial full length sizing though - there is a coin on the shelf - I set that on top of the shell holder, screw FLS die down to that - most often see that the sizing has only gone part way down that neck. At least in old days, that was claimed to also have the advantage to "centre" that fired brass in that chamber - by the unsized portion of the neck. Are you loading for a store-bought gun, or a precision, completely hand made thing?
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I have only had a couple sessions now with neck size only and I don’t notice a difference in accuracy so will see about brass life during spring/summer and see how each hold up. Just store bought rifles so far, I have only loaded .223 and .308 so far and have dies for 6.5cm which I will be loading soon. All are assorted tikkas
 
I have annealed using a propane flame device and also one of BattleRife customers. I found the salt bath much more consistent although I was never comfortable using a liquid that is 525C. As jethunter pointed out it is not for everyone nor does every reloader need to do this. I have got up to 17 firings on brass that was never annealed. The one take I got from annealing is if you are to do this then you should anneal after every firing and work your load up this way. I still anneal my Weatherby 30/378 brass simply because of the cost associated with getting the stuff. JMO
 
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