Who Is Shooting Cast Bullits In Milsurps.

M

muzzle flash

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sw ont.
How about sharing some of your load data and results. I am just starting to tinker with cast in .303,7.62x54,30.06,7.5x55 and 7.62x39. Anybody using fillers?
 
I shot 115 gr Cast lead bullets in my SKS (7.62X39). I didn't use fillers. There were receipes in my relaoding manual. I seem to recall decent accuracy using Unique but that it wouldn't cylce the action. RL 7 worked just like factory rounds. PM me if you want me to email you the exact load data I was using.
 
I tried hard cast bullets in my Enfield once. I wasn't terribly impressed with it.
 
im loading 8X57 with accurate 5744 and 165 gr bullet.so far i'm down to about
2'' on 100 yrd with 32.7 gr of 5744

i tried 5744 with 7.62X54R and 130 gr cast and got nice grups at 25m
now im traing 223 and 8X56R
 
muzzle flash said:
How about sharing some of your load data and results. I am just starting to tinker with cast in .303,7.62x54,30.06,7.5x55 and 7.62x39. Anybody using fillers?
Click to expand...
I used to use fillers, but the general current wisdom coming from the uber gurus in the Cast Bullet Association is that they aren't necessary with proper loading and do raise a possibility of ringing your barrel. I used to use Super Grex, but I don't think you can get it anymore. Ken Mollohan wrote quite extensively on the use of fillers if that interests you, and I believe he still hangs out on the cast bullet email lists.

I have come to agree with the most current views on fillers, although wax wads are giving a lot of high power rifle shooters good results in rifles with difficult chambers.

Aside from Ed Harris's Does-All Red Dot Load, I don't think asking for loads is too helpful. Unlike jacketed bullets, there are other factors in the mix when you're doing the cast bullet thing, and they play a major part in performance. My opinion, for whatever it is worth, that the following are the three major things to getting good performance out of cast bullets:

  1. Bullet fit to ball seat/leade
  2. Bullet fit to ball seat/leade
  3. Matching bullet hardness to load operating pressure

If you have a good bullet fit, you won't need fillers or wax wads. If you don't have that fit, then COW or something like Super Grex will help prevent leading. Pressure matching addresses the same issues. And so... the powder and charge operates in conjunction with bullet design, lube, amount of lube... and of course bullet hardness.

To each his own, but I just look at the starting loads in the Lyman book and then get on with it - after measuring up a chamber cast. Quickload looks like the best way to go, and I'll probably put that on my shopping list pretty quick.

HEAT TREATING WHEELWEIGHTS
Heat treating wheel weight alloy is both controllable and predictable ie: It is possible to heat treat wheel weight bullets and predict the final hardness to be achieved.

Hardness does not increase until the quench temp (after a ½ hr heat soak) reaches 420 deg. F. as measured with a digital thermometer shaded from any direct radiant heat.

Temperature vs. Resulting Hardness

410 12 BHN
420 15 BHN
430 17 BHN
440 23 BHN
450 29 BHN

Conclusions:
Exceeding 450 did not cause any significant increase in hardness.

460 deg was very close (read that too close) to the plastic deformation stage of the alloy

OPTIMAL HARDNESS FOR OPERATING PRESSURE OF LOAD

Tensile strength of lead/lead alloys = BHN x 480

Best bullet performance is usually at pressures between 3 and 4 times
Tensile strength. I don't how to make a table appear properly in here, so you'll just have to look at it and figure out how to reconstruct it - not hard, the board software just takes out a bunch of the tabs and formatting.

ALLOY BHN TENSILE STRENGH (PSI) TIMES 3 GIVES TIMES 4 GIVES
MIN. CHAMBER PRESSURE (PSI) MAX. CHAMBER PRESSURE (PSI)
PURE LEAD 5 5(480)=2400 7,200 9,600
1-20 Pb/Sn 10 10(480)=4800 14,400 19,200
WHEEL WEIGHTS 12 12(480)=5760 17,280 22,040
LYMAN #2 15 15(480)=7200 21,600 28,800
LINOTYPE 22 22(480)=10560 31,680 42,240

HEAT TREATED WHEEL WEIGHTS 30 30(480)=14400 43,200 57,600
 
The new Lee manual has lots of info to learn about cast bullets vs performance and tons of load data for common 30cal cartridges. Lyman is also an excellent reference.

Most milsurps will benefit when gas checked bullets are used. Just helps with rough bores and bullet fit, especially if trying for elevated cast bullet velocities.

Jerry
 
I shoot pretty much all cast bullets in my milsurps. I also steer clear of pistol powder, way to easy to double charge. Also too much free space, and I don't believe in fillers. In 303 and 7.62X54R I use a magnum rifle powder, you fill the case, but the velocities remain low. 47SL from Higginsons. Can't get anymore though shame! I use 39.0 gr. with a 185 gr. gas checked bullet in both my 303 and my 7.62X54R. Very accurate. I'm not sure what it chronys at, but I did chonry 41.0 gr. out of my SMLE and my Nagant 91 and got 2095 fps and 2089 fps, so it's likely to be around 1800-1900 fps. And that's just nice. I used to shoot cast for 7.62X39 until I sold my SKS. I was using H4198 powder and 160 gr. cast bullet from Lee. 24.0 gr. gave a M.V. of 2088 fps. That load is a little on the hot side, so I'd suggest you reduce by 10% and work up. Way more accurate than the chicom stuff. Make sure you clean your gas piston after each trip to the range though and you'll be fine. 2000 fps and below seems to be the magic number for cast shooting, although I have shot 2600 fps out of my Ross, never tumbled, but wasn't terribly accurate though.
 
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