Who sells SIGs P210 in Canada?

[TT1900]

This is from reputable sources such as Michael Zeleny who "wrote the book" on the P49/P210 pistols.

I've read his articles and while he certainly knows the history and production differences better than I do, he's as biased as he is knowledgable. Just as a quick example, comparing a ransom rested 50yd target to a hand fired 25m target as a test of mechanical accuracy; not a valid comparison. He has no engineering background that I can find, so everything he says about such things I disregard as opinion only, much of it misinformed (He's also riding the MIM hate train). He may have wrote the book, but it's a history book and nothing more.

I can only compare an early production P49, 210-2, Legend, and Legend Target as those are the only ones I have handled. It is very possible that later P49's were better due to an improved heat treatment process and other advances, but I doubt the end user can tell the difference. Things like that need destructive testing to determine, which firearms owners are unlikely to appreciate. Personal preferences vary, but so far I have yet to find a P210 I don't like.

Gdawg, your collection never fails to impress. Both are absolutely stunning.

 

[gdawg]

Even though a commercial target model i.e. dash 6 will sell for more than a plain P49, if you manage to get a military model with it's matching rig in great condition, it will not only sell for about the same price in today's market but will age better and probably will worth more down the road. On the plus side, with it's holster wear and signs of use you wont feel bad to use it more and maybe add a nick or two (that's personal tho, I always felt bad to put a tiny nick on vintage guns that were in mint condition)

That has not been close to my observation on the used market here or in the US even with the full matching military rig (except for a few rarer early variants, and nothing -2). If you like the military variants great, so do I, but projecting values into the future is anyones guess and I'll believe it when I see it. Not trying to be argumentative here just not totally agreeing with some of your categorical statements or data. All good. the most important thing is a good community of appreciators of these fine guns. I like them all.

 

[Harry Callahan]

That has not been close to my observation on the used market here or in the US even with the full matching military rig (except for a few rarer early variants, and nothing -2). If you like the military variants great, so do I, but projecting values into the future is anyones guess and I'll believe it when I see it. Not trying to be argumentative here just not totally agreeing with some of your categorical statements or data. All good. the most important thing is a good community of appreciators of these fine guns. I like them all.

It's all good G. Beautiful collection you have there!

 

[gdawg]

I've read his articles and while he certainly knows the history and production differences better than I do, he's as biased as he is knowledgable. Just as a quick example, comparing a ransom rested 50yd target to a hand fired 25m target as a test of mechanical accuracy; not a valid comparison. He has no engineering background that I can find, so everything he says about such things I disregard as opinion only, much of it misinformed (He's also riding the MIM hate train). He may have wrote the book, but it's a history book and nothing more.

I can only compare an early production P49, 210-2, Legend, and Legend Target as those are the only ones I have handled. It is very possible that later P49's were better due to an improved heat treatment process and other advances, but I doubt the end user can tell the difference. Things like that need destructive testing to determine, which firearms owners are unlikely to appreciate. Personal preferences vary, but so far I have yet to find a P210 I don't like.

Gdawg, your collection never fails to impress. Both are absolutely stunning.

You raise good points. Even if there are tecnhnical advantages of some Swiss production years from a durability perspective, there is certainly not much practical evidence of problems with more recent variants, particularly given the numbers in circulation. Those factors don't seem to be reflected in prices on the used market, either (i.e. The rarer versions still command the highest prices)

And I seem to recall you have a few nice ones tucked away too

 

[SIGP2101]

Someone always pops up with these MIM/Cast inferiority comments no matter which product is being discussed and it's utter garbage. MIM, Cast, or Forged are all fine for use in firearms assuming they have been properly designed and manufactured, and stating that one is less durable is a moot point without extensive testing and evaluation.

Sintered parts are inferior to cast or forged steel parts. In firearms industry we use castings and forged parts everywhere we can use MIM produced parts but not other way around. You can built entire gun out of steel but you can't do that out sintered metal. Sorry!
It all depends on the purpose of the part. Some people don't mind plastic parts on their firearms I do. MIM parts if they are not machined to final tolerance, and most of them are not, have that cheap look and detracts from visual appeal especially on expensive guns like P210. Sintered part on Glock, no problem, but not on the classic guns like many out there. It is like saying that particle board is not inferior to solid wood. Well, I am yet to see someone using particle board instead of hardwood flooring in his house.

 

[TT1900]

First, I never said you could build the entire gun in such a way or out of such materials, just that when properly designed and manufactured MIM can be used in firearms with no functional issue. There is no reason that a trigger cannot be MIM vice forged steel for example, and most people would be hard pressed to tell the difference after the part is finished. Your own personal likes and dislikes as far as appearance have nothing to do with function and performance. You prefer forged steel, thats great, but doesn't mean another method or material is inferior for a given application.

Second, sintering and MIM are not one in the same process, and "casting" is a catch all term for dozens of individual processes each of which has a series of advantages and disadvantages dictating appropiate use for the materials created. "Forged" is also a very wide term for many processes. Proper design will include an analysis of which parts require which manufacturing method to meet both performance and cost requirements.

Third, define inferior? Inferiority is not absolute but referenced from a set of performance criteria. Using your wood example, absolutely I prefer oak plank flooring in my living room to birch plywood. But if I'm rebuilding the wing of a vintage aircraft birch plywood is certainly superior to hardwood of any nature. Horses for courses.

 

[Gillis2]

Recently, I foolishly sold my like new German made P210 to a good member here. My only consolation is that he seems to be a connoisseur and enjoy it much. But this thread reactivated my STRONG desire to get a P210 again and with the advises of member « Harry Callahan» and coached by member « gdawg» I began shopping a bit. I finally made my decision for a Swiss made P210-2 from Weimajack. This specimen seems to be in very good condition. The pics show a very good exterior condition and Jacques from Weimajack who has been real nice by the way, says it appears that the gun has a very low round count. Now the wait begins...

Cheers

Gilbert

 

[Harry Callahan]

Recently, I foolishly sold my like new German made P210 to a good member here. My only consolation is that he seems to be a connoisseur and enjoy it much. But this thread reactivated my STRONG desire to get a P210 again and with the advises of member « Harry Callahan» and coached by member « gdawg» I began shopping a bit. I finally made my decision for a Swiss made P210-2 from Weimajack. This specimen seems to be in very good condition. The pics show a very good exterior condition and Jacques from Weimajack who has been real nice by the way, says it appears that the gun has a very low round count. Now the wait begins...

Cheers

Gilbert

Great buy Gilbert. Saw that one and it definitely looks to be in near new condition with the factory case and all docs including the test target dated 1982. Jacques is also a good guy to deal with, I've sent him a customer lately...

Enjoy your new Swiss made P210, you won't regret it!

H.C.

 

[BillD]

Recently, I foolishly sold my like new German made P210 to a good member here. My only consolation is that he seems to be a connoisseur and enjoy it much. But this thread reactivated my STRONG desire to get a P210 again and with the advises of member « Harry Callahan» and coached by member « gdawg» I began shopping a bit. I finally made my decision for a Swiss made P210-2 from Weimajack. This specimen seems to be in very good condition. The pics show a very good exterior condition and Jacques from Weimajack who has been real nice by the way, says it appears that the gun has a very low round count. Now the wait begins...

Cheers

Gilbert

Thanks again Gilbert, it's seeing some regular use yup - no you can't have it back , but enjoy the new acquisition, sounds like a keeper!

 

[Gillis2]

Hi Harry Callahan,
Yes that is the one I bought. Thanks for your good words and help.

Hey BillD,
I know you take good care of that German P210. Enjoy !

Gilbert