Who the Heck still makes a good gun ?

Sako 85.
In stainless / synthetic it will last multiple lifetimes with no issues.
Strong as a hammer and built about as simple, detachable mag (metal) that is easy to remove but won't fall out - and its a double stack so you can load the mag without having to remove it, a bolt that disassembles in seconds without tools, everything is stainless or coated (except the pistol grip cap screws).Their scope mounts and rings are easy on and off, hold zero and are all stainless including the screws.
I could go on and on but IMO you'll forget about the extra money spent on one long before you stop appreciating the quality.
 
The Europeans + Weatherby.

X-fan said:
Definitely blown out of proportion.

The Mauser 98 is still the best LIGHTWEIGHT action made.
If you want a mountain rifle that doesn't have disposable plastic parts this is your gun.

The FN and Ruger are fine if you don't mind another 1/2+ pounds.
When you factor in the length of the Ruger action I think it is grossly overweight.
Ruger has good QC although the ring system blows.
I'm not sure why, but I have seen several that were severely misaligned.
Ruger would be my second choice.
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Fix'd
 
TaylorJW said:
Why,,,not pickina fight..was just lookin at a montana in 243,,,they seem well built,and freakin light.
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Because I owned one in 308Win. Someone would have to pay me to own another one. Here's some of my laundry list of complaints.

1. Feeding problems (wouldn't feed out of left side of mag). I finally got this resolved by taking a pair of pliers to the box mag and a lot of trial and error.

2. Radical accuracy problems (rifle could barely stay on a sheet of paper at 100 meters). After $$$ at the gunsmith to correct some of the issues noted below, and a lot of $$$$$$ in load development, I did get it down to an honest 2MOA. I think 2MOA kinda sucks, personally.

3. A LOOOONG list of problems that I wouldn't expect to leave a factory anywhere but China: headspace too long, crown was bad, bore/rifling was terrible, firing pin protrusion was 1/3rd shorter than it should have been, barrel was not free floated, bolt lugs only touching on one side, etc.

4. Lack of warranty in Canada. In fairness to Kimber, despite their official position being that there is no warranty in Canada -- I did talk to them, and while they weren't willing to pay my gunsmith bills, they were very nice and did send me some parts to help addres some of the issues (new mag box, which duplicated the feeding problem I had fixed, and a new firing pin assembly).

I do know, there are lots of happy Kimber owners out there, but if you start punching "Kimber 84" and "Feeding Problems" or "Accuracy Problems" into Google, you'll find a disturbing number of reports similar to mine. If it was a Rem/Sav/Win/etc with millions served, you expect to find a few lemons here and there -- but for a very expensive rifle that only sells in small numbers, there are a LOT of unhappy customers.

Other than all that -- the rifle was a dream -- light as a feather, perfectly balanced, 3 position safety, control round feed, etc. It's a 5-star design, produced with 1-star quality control. If you get a good one that shoots well and feeds well, it'd be an excellent rig.

Footnote: after I spent the $$$ to get most of the issues fixed, the guy I sold it to shipped it off to Ron Smith for re-boring to 338 Federal. After the issues were fixed, and the re-bore on the barrel, it shoots 3/4 inch groups all day long.

YMMV.
 
The Scandinavian and German firearms are made better than arms made here or they wouldn't survive in the market over there. Shooters across the ocean demand quality. I'm amazed at the crap that North American shooters are willing to buy if the price is low enough. If you are willing to pay double the price of a typical North american firearm, the QC issues that many experience with all the cheapo guns simply go away. I have never seen a bad Sako, Blaser, Sauer, Merkel, Krieghoff, Anschutz etc. but have seen numerous bad Remingtons, Winchesters, Marlins, Savages, Rugers, etc. etc. I no longer buy North American firearms.
 
Longwalker said:
The Scandinavian and German firearms are made better than arms made here or they wouldn't survive in the market over there. Shooters across the ocean demand quality. I'm amazed at the crap that North American shooters are willing to buy if the price is low enough. If you are willing to pay double the price of a typical North american firearm, the QC issues that many experience with all the cheapo guns simply go away. I have never seen a bad Sako, Blaser, Sauer, Merkel, Krieghoff, Anschutz etc. but have seen numerous bad Remingtons, Winchesters, Marlins, Savages, Rugers, etc. etc. I no longer buy North American firearms.[/QUOTE]

After my latest Marlin purchase and another fiasco with a new Mossberg, I'm with you on that one.....
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BLR and 7600

My BLR 308 with 150 grain winchester powermax and my 7600(older one with the nice wood and straight comb found it NIB) with winchester powermax 180 grains will shoot .8-1" sub/moa all day long at 80 yards ;) actions and reliability in -35 snowstorm, to freezin rain. When i tell em to work, THEY WORK!!
 
look in the exchange forum 85% of rifle for sale or trade are remington and with only few round down the pipe, if you want a good rifle,look for a brand nobody sale and the funny part is they are always good shooter,so wy are they for sale?????????
 
Any Winchester or Browning made in the Miroku plant in Japan is of excellent quality, fit and finish, judging from a few that I've owned.
 
+1 for the Winchester M70 Super Grade ( FN Manufactured ) . Just put my name down for 1 in .270 Win, and only after much reading, research, and forum shopping. :dancingbanana:
 
Ron AKA said:
Would agree, Ruger is probably the bottom of the barrel.
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I disagree. My Ruger Mk II varmint/target in .308 is one of my favourites. Laminated stock with a wide forend, excellent fully adjustable trigger, classic Mauser type action, shoots dime sized groups at 100m.

Cast action? yes, so what? Jet engine turbine blades are also investment cast.
 
I actually love my Remy's

I would not trade my Remy's to anyone. I got a 700 varminter in .223 - took the tupperware stock off it and put a Hogue stock. That baby outshoots anything...period.

I also have a remy 7600 in 243. Had an initial problem with the chamber and it was replaced no questions and no cost to me. The replacement is absolute GOLD (even though synthetic). Again, it is a very accurate shooter and very, very fast to boot.

I have had tikka (barrel heats up too fast and shot wander), a Sako (extremely long action bolt and a reasonable shot), Weatherby synthetic (good shooter, just too slow - bolt) and Browning (shoots reasonable, but very picky with loads). My cheap remy's out-shoot and outperform the others, and that's what counts for me. :D
 
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